1910 Wheat penny (reverse) 2 2

[Marquez-Collector]

What are some thoughts on coin dipping? with solutions like MS-70 and e*Z*est? 

Would it be Ok to subject Lincolns to sonic cleaners to remove dirt? 

 

[JKK]

I think a lot of dealers dip all their dingy Morgans in ammonia (or something). If you see a display case with not a single dingy-looking Morgan, might start to ask yourself how they all got so pretty. Then again, I think a lot of dealers are coin-doctoring maniacs.

I don't think MS70 is meant as a dip, but a soak. I've had good luck with using it to decrudulate coins, but the point was always that they were crudulated to begin with, and were never going to be worth much, so my liability was limited. The objective there is to loosen up the crud so that it will respond to other removal efforts (I don't recommend a q-tip). Had I suspected any of them were rare, I'd have sent them in to be cleaned conserved conserved conserved (I keep forgetting, sorry) by professionals.

[Marquez-Collector]

Ok, Thanks @JKK 

So lets say it is at face value and it is going into the folder just to have the series collection, then MS-70 is not a bad idea. But if it is going into a slab, and the value justifies the conservation, then it would make sense to have NGC or the grading service perform the conservation. 

I have enlightened Thank you thank you! 

[JKK]

Two very crucial things about any sort of chemical treatment:

• Clean it the hell off completely (as in not "okay, that's good enough," like the typical person who does everything half-baked, but as in "there is now officially no way in the world any residue could possibly remain"). Normally that's done with a sustained rinse in water (I think distilled is mostly preferred). Many, many once-appealing coins still show dip residue that has become the new crudulation.
• For the most part, pat it dry without rubbing. I'm not sure how possible it is to make a cloth soft enough to rub a coin with; they are all, like paper, made of tiny fibers. With any pressure, they are very likely to leave tiny scratches. What I do is pull a couple of paper towels, fold them up, put the coin in one, press very firmly so that the paper will contact every possible crevice and wick out water, then remove coin from that towel and do it again with the second, fresh, dry paper towel.

One thing that's fun is to use Nic-a-lene to bring out lost dates on old Buffs. If you see an old Buff with no date and a dark stain on the mound, congrats, that one was Nic-a-lened by a careless dolt. The method there: be near the faucet and have the paper towels handy. Put just enough Nic-a-lene (it's just ferric chloride in solution) on the mound to cover it; the perfect coverage is the whole mound and nothing but. Then stare the drop down, looking very close. The instant you see the date become legible, under the faucet it goes, and there it stays for a good twenty seconds before pat-down. You see, there is a brief window of time before the Nic-a-lene eats the resurrected date (as in the case of the dolts), after which I doubt you get a second chance.

My guess is that the reason this is even possible is because the metal forced into the high points of the date is compressed, and thus will resist the chemical for a brief time. It's still a Nic-a-lened coin, of course, and the drop area color is now an unnaturally bright one that contrasts with the usual dull color, but you can temporarily fill a number of slots with these because a) most people do it wrong and b) a lot of dateless Buffs are dateless because they are older and saw more circulation. A dateless nickel was still worth five cents at the corner store.

[Crawtomatic]

42 minutes ago, Dukemnm said:

Ok, Thanks @JKK 

So lets say it is at face value and it is going into the folder just to have the series collection, then MS-70 is not a bad idea. But if it is going into a slab, and the value justifies the conservation, then it would make sense to have NGC or the grading service perform the conservation. 

I have enlightened Thank you thank you! 

Always with an eye on the future that what goes into a folder now will come out later in the ownership of another.  But yeah, not every item needs to be preserved for all eternity.  That's how we end up with far more supply than demand.

Always thought it would be fun to find an affordable non-collectible collectible, say the 1988 Topps Rickey Henderson, then buy up 100,000 of them and publicly destroy 98,000 of them.  F your production numbers, son.  We make our own scarcities!

[Thompson2]

9 hours ago, KarenHolcomb said:

So this is the result of the vinegar/salt or the ultrasonic deal I was hoping to find out about? Because I tried vinegar long ago and it made my Copper Lincoln's an unnatural shade of orange and ate right through the Zinc ones.

Those are vinegar (maybe lemon juice)/salt.  The ultrasonic (with distilled water) should be harmless to the coins.  It won't change the finish, just remove any crudation.  If you use some cleaning agent, the ultrasonic will make it quicker / more effective.

 

8 hours ago, KarenHolcomb said:

So can somebody post a photo of what one of these ultrasonic machines would look like please? This is the 1st I've heard of them and have pretty much given up on experimenting with different chemical agents to clean what could be nice coins if not for a few blemishes, so I have too many Copper Lincoln's in bags waiting to be melted into ammo during the Zombie Apocalypse. I'm sure that maybe I could make one of these machines if I could see the general appearance and workings of one. 

They're not really something you can just whip up from stuff  you've got lying around... unless you've got a couple of ultrasonic transducers and drivers in your stash.   

The one I've got is an old commercial one.  2 1/2 gallon, 60 watt ultrasonic power, 42kHz frequency.  There are some that look pretty reasonable on Amazon.  Picked this one pretty much at random as an example... no experience with it, not endorsing it, use at your own risk, blah, blah, blah.  

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LXHBTUQ/ref=sspa_dk_detail_0?psc=1

  

And for those of you who like video demos... keep in mind the unit this guy has is a multi-thousand dollar setup, but the principals are the same.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydrCPtU2atU

Edited July 9, 2019 by Thompson2

[Marquez-Collector]

1 hour ago, CRAWTOMATIC said:

Always thought it would be fun to find an affordable non-collectible collectible, say the 1988 Topps Rickey Henderson, then buy up 100,000 of them and publicly destroy 98,000 of them.  F your production numbers, son.  We make our own scarcities!

I have thought about that myself  

 

[Mohawk]

4 hours ago, Dukemnm said:

I have thought about that myself  

 

Didn't some wealthy collector in the Philippines basically do that in the 1980's by buying every 1906-S Peso he could find and harshly cleaning them all?  Though, in all fairness, the 1906-S Peso has basically been scarce since 1907, but this guy certainly made that issue far worse.  I seem to remember reading a story about that many years ago.

Edited July 9, 2019 by Mohawk

[Mohawk]

9 hours ago, Dukemnm said:

What are some thoughts on coin dipping? with solutions like MS-70 and e*Z*est? 

Would it be Ok to subject Lincolns to sonic cleaners to remove dirt? 

 

I myself have used E-Z Est in the past to remove PVC residue off of some coins and I've had good results in that particular application.  But that's the only thing I've used it for and Jonathan is right....make sure you RINSE that sucker off like crazy.  I learned that the hard way the second time I used it to remove PVC from an Ottoman 1327/9 Copper-Nickel 40 Para (scarce date).  I got the PVC off, but eventually ended up with a spotty Ottoman key date coin.  A buyer of mine got a really good deal on an Ottoman key date because I screwed up a rinsing job, though he would have gotten a good buy regardless due to it being a former PVC coin.  But that's the only boo boo I've ever had with it. 

Edited July 10, 2019 by Mohawk

[KarenHolcomb]

7 hours ago, Thompson2 said:

Those are vinegar (maybe lemon juice)/salt.  The ultrasonic (with distilled water) should be harmless to the coins.  It won't change the finish, just remove any crudation.  If you use some cleaning agent, the ultrasonic will make it quicker / more effective.

 

They're not really something you can just whip up from stuff  you've got lying around... unless you've got a couple of ultrasonic transducers and drivers in your stash.   

The one I've got is an old commercial one.  2 1/2 gallon, 60 watt ultrasonic power, 42kHz frequency.  There are some that look pretty reasonable on Amazon.  Picked this one pretty much at random as an example... no experience with it, not endorsing it, use at your own risk, blah, blah, blah.  

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LXHBTUQ/ref=sspa_dk_detail_0?psc=1

  

And for those of you who like video demos... keep in mind the unit this guy has is a multi-thousand dollar setup, but the principals are the same.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydrCPtU2atU

Ok. So I have no clue what you guys are talking about but that doesn't cause me to want my guy to make me one any less. He is an auto mechanic and knew all the terms you are all using here and said he had actually looked online about making one for some other purpose and feels he can do it. His helper kid, he says , "he's no mechanic, but he is a computer genius" likely has a conducer or two lying around as that kind of thing is what he's into. He is going to ask him tomorrow. I, on the other hand, wonder why a deep fryer lime for French fries couldn't be used? It has separate little ends in there in the middle of the heating element. He says he doesn't think so, but isn't sure and wonders if it wouldn't get to hot even at its lowest setting. Feel free to tell me I am an insufficiently_thoughtful_person if that is the case, if not how might I transform this deep fryer into an ionic thingy that I already forgot what it's called? See, this is why Tom likes me to come around every so often because I make you all feel so darned smart. Lol!  Anywhooo....here's a photo of my fryer. 

I guess my photos are too big to send all together, but this one should give you an idea of what I have. Not like I ever use it because it makes the entire house smell like burnt oil.

[KarenHolcomb]

10 hours ago, Just Bob said:

Yep, you are definitely from below the Mason-Dixon line.

West 'By God' Virginia, thank you very much.

[Mohawk]

37 minutes ago, KarenHolcomb said:

West 'By God' Virginia, thank you very much.

Quote

11 hours ago, Just Bob said:

Yep, you are definitely from below the Mason-Dixon line.

I've never even been near the Mason-Dixon Line (I'm a NY-California boy)......maybe that's why I'm so unhandy.  I was that kid who couldn't even get a Lego set to look like the box

[JKK]

1 hour ago, KarenHolcomb said:

I guess my photos are too big to send all together, but this one should give you an idea of what I have. Not like I ever use it because it makes the entire house smell like burnt oil.

 

I'm not sure you should let yourself be topless in the picture like that, Karen, though it's absolutely none of my business to suggest how you should do anything in your own house.

[Crawtomatic]

21 minutes ago, JKK said:

I'm not sure you should let yourself be topless in the picture like that, Karen, though it's absolutely none of my business to suggest how you should do anything in your own house.

I was actually wondering why there's a full on deep fryer above an unsuspecting man in a tub but I've seen way too many true crime docs to know where that's going.

[Thompson2]

4 hours ago, KarenHolcomb said:

Ok. So I have no clue what you guys are talking about but that doesn't cause me to want my guy to make me one any less. He is an auto mechanic and knew all the terms you are all using here and said he had actually looked online about making one for some other purpose and feels he can do it. His helper kid, he says , "he's no mechanic, but he is a computer genius" likely has a conducer or two lying around as that kind of thing is what he's into. He is going to ask him tomorrow. I, on the other hand, wonder why a deep fryer lime for French fries couldn't be used? It has separate little ends in there in the middle of the heating element. He says he doesn't think so, but isn't sure and wonders if it wouldn't get to hot even at its lowest setting. Feel free to tell me I am an insufficiently_thoughtful_person if that is the case, if not how might I transform this deep fryer into an ionic thingy that I already forgot what it's called? See, this is why Tom likes me to come around every so often because I make you all feel so darned smart. Lol!  Anywhooo....here's a photo of my fryer. 

I guess my photos are too big to send all together, but this one should give you an idea of what I have. Not like I ever use it because it makes the entire house smell like burnt oil.

I absolutely LOVE where your head's at.  A fryer might be a decent shell to start with.  The heater in that is waaaaaay to big and would take a ton of power to get it to vibrate like it'd need to.  But --- If you can get your hands on a transducer and driver for it, you could use the outside of the fryer, put a smaller thin metal pan in it and stick the transducer on the bottom of the pan.  If you're doing this with duct tape and bailing wire (, all you really need is a thin metal pan (like a bread pan or deep pie pan) that you can hold just by the top lip (the bottom has to be free to vibrate) and the transducer setup stuck on the bottom.  The rest of the stuff is bells and whistles.  The transducer shakes the hell out of the pan (really, really, really fast - that's the tricky bit) and the water / cleaner in the pan does the rest.  

[KarenHolcomb]

6 hours ago, JKK said:

I'm not sure you should let yourself be topless in the picture like that, Karen, though it's absolutely none of my business to suggest how you should do anything in your own house.

Oh my. I was tripping for a second there. Thanks for that heart attack, JKK.

[KarenHolcomb]

3 hours ago, Thompson2 said:

I absolutely LOVE where your head's at.  A fryer might be a decent shell to start with.  The heater in that is waaaaaay to big and would take a ton of power to get it to vibrate like it'd need to.  But --- If you can get your hands on a transducer and driver for it, you could use the outside of the fryer, put a smaller thin metal pan in it and stick the transducer on the bottom of the pan.  If you're doing this with duct tape and bailing wire (, all you really need is a thin metal pan (like a bread pan or deep pie pan) that you can hold just by the top lip (the bottom has to be free to vibrate) and the transducer setup stuck on the bottom.  The rest of the stuff is bells and whistles.  The transducer shakes the hell out of the pan (really, really, really fast - that's the tricky bit) and the water / cleaner in the pan does the rest.  

Alright then. I shall pass this on to my guy and see what he and his helper kid can do. Thanks for all the info. I am starting to get excited so they're gonna have to work fast. 

[KarenHolcomb]

6 hours ago, CRAWTOMATIC said:

I was actually wondering why there's a full on deep fryer above an unsuspecting man in a tub but I've seen way too many true crime docs to know where that's going.

Haha! At the kitchen table and he wouldn't let me near him if that thing were full. I tend to be on the clumsy side. 

[JKK]

6 hours ago, KarenHolcomb said:

Oh my. I was tripping for a second there. Thanks for that heart attack, JKK.

Just another service I offer with a smile.

[Marquez-Collector]

16 hours ago, Mohawk said:

Didn't some wealthy collector in the Philippines basically do that in the 1980's by buying every 1906-S Peso he could find and harshly cleaning them all?  Though, in all fairness, the 1906-S Peso has basically been scarce since 1907, but this guy certainly made that issue far worse.  I seem to remember reading a story about that many years ago.

This is the first time I hear about the Peso, now I am curious to find more info on it.   

 

16 hours ago, Mohawk said:

I myself have used E-Z Est in the past to remove PVC residue off of some coins and I've had good results in that particular application.  But that's the only thing I've used it for and Jonathan is right....make sure you RINSE that sucker off like crazy.  I learned that the hard way the second time I used it to remove PVC from an Ottoman 1327/9 Copper-Nickel 40 Para (scarce date).  I got the PVC off, but eventually ended up with a spotty Ottoman key date coin.  A buyer of mine got a really good deal on an Ottoman key date because I screwed up a rinsing job, though he would have gotten a good buy regardless due to it being a former PVC coin.  But that's the only boo boo I've ever had with it. 

So I could dip a lincoln Copper nickel? if I do, will the grading come back as cleaned? using the E-Z Est dip for copper. 

[Mohawk]

2 hours ago, Dukemnm said:

This is the first time I hear about the Peso, now I am curious to find more info on it.   

 

So I could dip a lincoln Copper nickel? if I do, will the grading come back as cleaned? using the E-Z Est dip for copper. 

Well, Manuel, I don't know....I've never sent a coin I used E-Z Est on in for grading.  It may be worth an experiment.  If I come across the right coin to undertake an experiment with, I'll do so and let you guys know.  It may take a bit though.

[Mohawk]

On 7/9/2019 at 8:26 PM, KarenHolcomb said:

Ok. So I have no clue what you guys are talking about but that doesn't cause me to want my guy to make me one any less. He is an auto mechanic and knew all the terms you are all using here and said he had actually looked online about making one for some other purpose and feels he can do it. His helper kid, he says , "he's no mechanic, but he is a computer genius" likely has a conducer or two lying around as that kind of thing is what he's into. He is going to ask him tomorrow. I, on the other hand, wonder why a deep fryer lime for French fries couldn't be used? It has separate little ends in there in the middle of the heating element. He says he doesn't think so, but isn't sure and wonders if it wouldn't get to hot even at its lowest setting. Feel free to tell me I am an insufficiently_thoughtful_person if that is the case, if not how might I transform this deep fryer into an ionic thingy that I already forgot what it's called? See, this is why Tom likes me to come around every so often because I make you all feel so darned smart. Lol!  Anywhooo....here's a photo of my fryer. 

I guess my photos are too big to send all together, but this one should give you an idea of what I have. Not like I ever use it because it makes the entire house smell like burnt oil.

Wow Karen....you're a brave one trying this out!! I don't even want to think about what would happen if I started *spoon*ing around with a deep fryer like that.............be careful!

Edited July 11, 2019 by Mohawk

[KarenHolcomb]

1 hour ago, Mohawk said:

Wow Karen....you're a brave one trying this out!! I don't even want to think about what would happen if I started *spoon*ing around with a deep fryer like that.............be careful!

Well Tom, as a child I loved taking things apart to see if they'd still work when I put them back together and continued fixing, mostly Jerry Rigging, things and cars and just anything that broke that I couldn't afford to replace or pay someone else to fix for me. Then I met Todd coming up on 17 yrs ago, I think, and he has never let me do anything like that, so alas, I have lost confidence in my ability to do such things so he will be doing this for me. And I'm not going to complain one bit about that. He just better really do it. Now,  things he doesn't like doing, such as all this remodeling, I have become quite adept at, until he tells me that he couldn't have done a particular thing and then I spoon it up from then forward. So don't be too amazed at my ability to build stuff and things because it isn't me doing it. It's just me taking good care of the guy that is doing those things. So sorry to disappoint. NOT! LOL!

[Mohawk]

1 minute ago, KarenHolcomb said:

Well Tom, as a child I loved taking things apart to see if they'd still work when I put them back together and continued fixing, mostly Jerry Rigging, things and cars and just anything that broke that I couldn't afford to replace or pay someone else to fix for me. Then I met Todd coming up on 17 yrs ago, I think, and he has never let me do anything like that, so alas, I have lost confidence in my ability to do such things so he will be doing this for me. And I'm not going to complain one bit about that. He just better really do it. Now,  things he doesn't like doing, such as all this remodeling, I have become quite adept at, until he tells me that he couldn't have done a particular thing and then I spoon it up from then forward. So don't be too amazed at my ability to build stuff and things because it isn't me doing it. It's just me taking good care of the guy that is doing those things. So sorry to disappoint. NOT! LOL!

Hey Karen!

Sounds like you've got a good one with Todd!  My fiancee Candice is the one whose handy in our relationship.....she can fix and build all sorts of things.  Be sure to keep us posted as to how you and Todd's little experiment turns out....I'm intrigued now, as are the rest of the regulars I'd imagine!  This is going to be quite the experiment.  But at least you had skills like that at one point.....I never have.  I can't build things, I can't fix things, I can't use tools.  But I'm a great educator, numismatist and caretaker of fish, reptiles and invertebrates!  We all have our strengths

~Tom

[KarenHolcomb]

5 minutes ago, Mohawk said:

Hey Karen!

Sounds like you've got a good one with Todd!  My fiancee Candice is the one whose handy in our relationship.....she can fix and build all sorts of things.  Be sure to keep us posted as to how you and Todd's little experiment turns out....I'm intrigued now, as are the rest of the regulars I'd imagine!  This is going to be quite the experiment.  But at least you had skills like that at one point.....I never have.  I can't build things, I can't fix things, I can't use tools.  But I'm a great educator, numismatist and caretaker of fish, reptiles and invertebrates!  We all have our strengths

~Tom

Ihy. I will definitely do that. I figured y'all had maybe lost interest in the topic so have been chatting with Mr Thompson. He has provided a good bit of info for us and if we are correct with our thoughts we will have it done by my Bday. 

I jave a friend on FB that raises Crays. The little ones. Dwarf CPO's he calls them. They are pretty neat and full of personalit. I'm thinking of getting some myself.

[Mohawk]

13 hours ago, KarenHolcomb said:

Ihy. I will definitely do that. I figured y'all had maybe lost interest in the topic so have been chatting with Mr Thompson. He has provided a good bit of info for us and if we are correct with our thoughts we will have it done by my Bday. 

I jave a friend on FB that raises Crays. The little ones. Dwarf CPO's he calls them. They are pretty neat and full of personalit. I'm thinking of getting some myself.

Crays are super cool, I'd recommend getting a couple.  Just be careful.....if you put them with fish, make sure that the fish are fast species with short fins as the crays will try to get them.  And the little African Frogs are always a no-no with Crays as the Crays will make a snack of them in fairly short order.

[KarenHolcomb]

16 hours ago, Mohawk said:

Crays are super cool, I'd recommend getting a couple.  Just be careful.....if you put them with fish, make sure that the fish are fast species with short fins as the crays will try to get them.  And the little African Frogs are always a no-no with Crays as the Crays will make a snack of them in fairly short order.

That's crazy, because the way Lenny goes on about his you'd think they are the most fragile creatures on the planet. He has even built over 100' of hiding space out of PVC pipe so when they Molt the others won't eat them when they sleep. He is very into his. Hand feeds them and says they watch over him when he is sick and sleeps. Sometimes I worry about him. Lol. 

[Mohawk]

7 hours ago, KarenHolcomb said:

That's crazy, because the way Lenny goes on about his you'd think they are the most fragile creatures on the planet. He has even built over 100' of hiding space out of PVC pipe so when they Molt the others won't eat them when they sleep. He is very into his. Hand feeds them and says they watch over him when he is sick and sleeps. Sometimes I worry about him. Lol. 

Lenny has an interesting relationship with his Crays, it sounds like.  Crays are fragile when they molt, but that's about the only time I'd say that's true.  Other than that, they're pretty hardy lil buggers and they absolutely will kill and eat pretty much anything that they can catch and subdue.  I think Lenny is doing what many cat owners do.....overlooking the fact that his beloved pets are essentially vicious predators who have the equipment and the instincts to serve them well in their ecological role.  I've had scorpions, and they're much more calm and subdued than any crays I've known in my life.  But, don't get me wrong....I LOVE crays!  I just see them for what they are.....aquatic generalist predators and scavengers.

[KarenHolcomb]

6 hours ago, Mohawk said:

Lenny has an interesting relationship with his Crays, it sounds like.  Crays are fragile when they molt, but that's about the only time I'd say that's true.  Other than that, they're pretty hardy lil buggers and they absolutely will kill and eat pretty much anything that they can catch and subdue.  I think Lenny is doing what many cat owners do.....overlooking the fact that his beloved pets are essentially vicious predators who have the equipment and the instincts to serve them well in their ecological role.  I've had scorpions, and they're much more calm and subdued than any crays I've known in my life.  But, don't get me wrong....I LOVE crays!  I just see them for what they are.....aquatic generalist predators and scavengers.

Yeah, he is a little weird about them. I thought he bred them as feeders until one of my dogs got killed and he compared it to losing one of his crays. I about hit the roof on that one, but then he told me that isn't what he has them for. It got weird after that. But he's a cool dude and has mad attributions and knowledge of Lincoln Varieties and Errors. And I like him, so I try to understand. But he says they all have their own personalities. 

[Mohawk]

41 minutes ago, KarenHolcomb said:

Yeah, he is a little weird about them. I thought he bred them as feeders until one of my dogs got killed and he compared it to losing one of his crays. I about hit the roof on that one, but then he told me that isn't what he has them for. It got weird after that. But he's a cool dude and has mad attributions and knowledge of Lincoln Varieties and Errors. And I like him, so I try to understand. But he says they all have their own personalities. 

Well Karen, I have to take exception to something you said....to Lenny, losing a cray likely was as painful to him as losing your dog was to you.  Different people love different animals in different ways.  For example, I absolutely loathe dogs.  I want nothing to do with them at all.  They are the only animal I can say that I hate. But I deeply love my turtle and betta fish. I've had my turtle (named Lenny, by coincidence) since 1991......I've been with that turtle longer than many marriages last.  So, if I lost my turtle, it would be highly significant for me.  I've had all kinds of pets....fish, turtles, birds, tarantulas, scorpions, cats, a salamander.....and I've loved them all deeply.  It bothers me when people place a dog on a pedestal over other animals.  They're not more special than any other animal.  All life if precious.  And Lenny (your friend) is right.....every single animal I've had has had its own distinct personality, and I miss every single one that I've lost to this day. 

Edited July 13, 2019 by Mohawk