1910 Wheat penny (reverse) 2 2

[Reme84]

 Does the 1910 wheat penny have any errors? cud error, or extra initials at the bottom? I know the coin is dirty and rough conditions, curiosity kills.

[Mohawk]

Hi Reme,

Sorry....I'm not seeing any errors on your coin based on the photos.  Just a regular 1910 Wheat Cent.

Sorry the news wasn't better.  Better luck next time!
~Tom

[Reme84]

One day, give me some good news sir! I know they say to never clean coins but like on this one what could it possible hurt? Or is that something not to do anytime.

[JKK]

43 minutes ago, Reme84 said:

One day, give me some good news sir! I know they say to never clean coins but like on this one what could it possible hurt? Or is that something not to do anytime.

There are times to clean coins. For example, when they are so crudulated you cannot identify them. For another, when they are covered with some sort of *spoon* like PVC.

(Of course, conventional numismatic wisdom will insist that this is conservation, not cleaning. I do not happen to agree with that wisdom, but I understand that it's what has been put out by those who sell the service, and that we have been told we should agree with it because it's put forth by the big kids. I also understand that, not being particularly prone to conformity, I decline to agree; to me that's like saying it's not bombing, it's air support; or it's not staff cuts, it's rightsizing. Pure euphemism, for my money.) In any case, if whatever is on the coin's surface is going to destroy it, yes, it makes sense to clean conserve it. Call it what you will--decrudulation, conservation, cleaning--heck, call it Fred--but if the coin is going to deteriorate, it needs to be stabilized.

On your coin, I don't see evidence that cleaning would help it, and could likely hurt it. While it might not lower value much, the questions of harm vs. help and lowering vs. raising value are not the same and should not be conflated. They tend to overlap, but they are two different questions.

[Greenstang]

You can soak your coins in acetone (I leave mine in for about 24 hrs) and rinse thoroughly without harming your coins. I usually do this with raw coins so as to remove any gunk or oily surface.

[Mohawk]

Jonathan and Greenstang have provided great wisdom here.  An acetone bath is fine as acetone does not alter the metal of the coin in any way......it just removes crud.  However, anything beyond that should only be done if the coin is in danger of deterioration.  Your coin doesn't appear to be deteriorating Reme.  What I would recommend is this: go right ahead with an acetone bath and see if it helps the appearance of the coin in any way.  If it doesn't, then accept that what is there is part of the coin now and this is how it looks.  Anything further would likely do more harm than good.

[Mohawk]

3 hours ago, JKK said:

There are times to clean coins. For example, when they are so crudulated you cannot identify them. For another, when they are covered with some sort of *spoon* like PVC.

(Of course, conventional numismatic wisdom will insist that this is conservation, not cleaning. I do not happen to agree with that wisdom, but I understand that it's what has been put out by those who sell the service, and that we have been told we should agree with it because it's put forth by the big kids. I also understand that, not being particularly prone to conformity, I decline to agree; to me that's like saying it's not bombing, it's air support; or it's not staff cuts, it's rightsizing. Pure euphemism, for my money.) In any case, if whatever is on the coin's surface is going to destroy it, yes, it makes sense to clean conserve it. Call it what you will--decrudulation, conservation, cleaning--heck, call it Fred--but if the coin is going to deteriorate, it needs to be stabilized.

On your coin, I don't see evidence that cleaning would help it, and could likely hurt it. While it might not lower value much, the questions of harm vs. help and lowering vs. raising value are not the same and should not be conflated. They tend to overlap, but they are two different questions.

I'm in complete agreement with you on this issue, Jonathan.  I'm not a "conservation" fan myself.  Unless I'm dealing with something like bronze disease or PVC, I'll see what acetone or olive oil can do and that's as far as I go.  But I've also seen acetone and olive oil work wonders on coins that are crudulated or that just need a little bath for other reasons.  If you have the patience, olive oil in particular can work wonders on crudulation but you often have to soak the coin for at least a few days.  And, if the olive oil doesn't help the coin, you still have a nice bottle of olive oil to make a nice Mediterranean meal with

Edited July 3, 2019 by Mohawk

[KarenHolcomb]

I tend to experiment with different methods of cleaning on my really coins. Did y'all know that erasers are a natural material? They can't detect natural stuff when they grade, can they?

[Just Bob]

11 minutes ago, Mohawk said:

  If you have the patience, olive oil can work wonders on crudulation but you often have to soak the coin for at least a few days.

I have a brass token that has been soaking in olive oil for just shy of five months. In about another month, if the crud is softened, I will pick a thorn off one of my wife's roses, and remove as much as will come off. If the junk is tough I may have to repeat the process. The thorn is small enough to get into the crevices, stiff enough to get the junk off, but soft enough that it won't harm the token. (Thanks to Conder101 and former member Michael for that tip).

The only problem that I have found with olive oil is that, being slightly acidic, it can change  a copper, bronze or brass coin's appearance if left soaking for a long time. And don't soak more than one coin in the same container at the same time. If the surfaces of the coins are touching, an outline of one can be transferred to another one. (Thanks to my own ignorance for that last tip).

[Mohawk]

1 minute ago, Just Bob said:

I have a brass token that has been soaking in olive oil for just shy of five months. In about another month, if the crud is softened, I will pick a thorn off one of my wife's roses, and remove as much as will come off. If the junk is tough I may have to repeat the process. The thorn is small enough to get into the crevices, stiff enough to get the junk off, but soft enough that it won't harm the token. (Thanks to Conder101 and former member Michael for that tip).

The only problem that I have found with olive oil is that, being slightly acidic, it can change  a copper, bronze or brass coin's appearance if left soaking for a long time. And don't soak more than one coin in the same container at the same time. If the surfaces of the coins are touching, an outline of one can be transferred to another one. (Thanks to my own ignorance for that last tip).

Those are excellent tips for using olive oil, Bob!  And it's interesting to know that about copper coins if they soak in olive oil for a long time.....most of my experience with olive oil has been with silver coins, with a few zinc and clad coins as well.  I've done copper coins also, but only for a few days.....that's all they needed to remove the crudulation.  I'm glad that you knew this to share on here.......this is what I love about this place and the members.....I've been doing coins for 20 years this year and I still learn new things here all the time!  Thanks for sharing your experiences with us.

[KarenHolcomb]

3 minutes ago, Just Bob said:

I have a brass token that has been soaking in olive oil for just shy of five months. In about another month, if the crud is softened, I will pick a thorn off one of my wife's roses, and remove as much as will come off. If the junk is tough I may have to repeat the process. The thorn is small enough to get into the crevices, stiff enough to get the junk off, but soft enough that it won't harm the token. (Thanks to Conder101 and former member Michael for that tip).

The only problem that I have found with olive oil is that, being slightly acidic, it can change  a copper, bronze or brass coin's appearance if left soaking for a long time. And don't soak more than one coin in the same container at the same time. If the surfaces of the coins are touching, an outline of one can be transferred to another one. (Thanks to my own ignorance for that last tip).

.You must have the patience of Jobe.

[JKK]

2 minutes ago, KarenHolcomb said:

.You must have the patience of Jobe.

When I blow bronze disease off a coin, I have to expect it to take six weeks. But I will get it off.

[JKK]

14 minutes ago, KarenHolcomb said:

I tend to experiment with different methods of cleaning on my really coins. Did y'all know that erasers are a natural material? They can't detect natural stuff when they grade, can they?

They can detect abrasion. They'll probably do what I would do, which is put it under a microscope. If it was rubbed, I'm probably going to learn about that.

[KarenHolcomb]

11 minutes ago, JKK said:

They can detect abrasion. They'll probably do what I would do, which is put it under a microscope. If it was rubbed, I'm probably going to learn about that.

I haven't seen one leave any marks yet but I only have a 30x loupe and a 600x scope but the lights on it make it impossible to use. My friend in sending me some tint so hopefully will use it then. Give it a try on an old Lincoln ate up with Verdigras. It may not get it all off but if you set it aside I bet it won't grow any more. Darn it. I just gave away my million dollar secret. Lol

[Just Bob]

45 minutes ago, JKK said:

When I blow bronze disease off a coin, I have to expect it to take six weeks. But I will get it off.

Can you elaborate?

[JKK]

21 minutes ago, Just Bob said:

Can you elaborate?

Sure. I did this. I had a nice AE2 of Magnentius that looked like a smurf had blown smurfy mucous all over it. It took about six weeklong soaks, but it knocked all the smurf snot off it.

[Mohawk]

2 minutes ago, JKK said:

Sure. I did this. I had a nice AE2 of Magnentius that looked like a smurf had blown smurfy mucous all over it. It took about six weeklong soaks, but it knocked all the smurf snot off it.

Thanks for sharing that, Jonathan!  I've now bookmarked it so it's handy for the inevitable day when I find a Faustina or Lucilla with smurf-snot.

[Just Bob]

I can definitely say that that is the first time I have ever seen anyone recommend boiling a coin.

[JKK]

19 minutes ago, Just Bob said:

I can definitely say that that is the first time I have ever seen anyone recommend boiling a coin.

I got good results without boiling it.

[Mohawk]

20 minutes ago, JKK said:

I got good results without boiling it.

I'm quite glad to hear that, Jonathan!  The boiling part did have me a little worried (I have a way of having weird stuff turn into weirder stuff when I do it), but I was prepared to take the risk if need be......I still am for the right coin though.  I'll make sure I have adult supervision if I have to boil any coins, though

Edited July 3, 2019 by Mohawk

[Mokiechan]

I have pocket change that accidently stays in my pocket through a wash cycle and come out absolutely dazzling with brightness. Of course that's dangerous for a valuable coin as there probably lots of hairlines caused by the agitation, etc.   I'm going to experiment with a dirty but relatively valueless coin and see if placing the coin in the laundry, protected from too much agitation, maybe gentle cycle.  What will it look like at the end of the washing?  I will place it in a pants pocket to further reduce its movement.  I have a very ugly, very common, very bullion value only Peace Dollar, just right for this experiment.

[Just Bob]

1 hour ago, Mokiechan said:

I have pocket change that accidently stays in my pocket through a wash cycle and come out absolutely dazzling with brightness. Of course that's dangerous for a valuable coin as there probably lots of hairlines caused by the agitation, etc.   I'm going to experiment with a dirty but relatively valueless coin and see if placing the coin in the laundry, protected from too much agitation, maybe gentle cycle.  What will it look like at the end of the washing?  I will place it in a pants pocket to further reduce its movement.  I have a very ugly, very common, very bullion value only Peace Dollar, just right for this experiment.

I have a few Lincoln cents that I accidentally washed that way. Completely unnatural looking, but, boy, are they pretty!

[Just Bob]

12 hours ago, Mohawk said:

Those are excellent tips for using olive oil, Bob!  And it's interesting to know that about copper coins if they soak in olive oil for a long time.....most of my experience with olive oil has been with silver coins, with a few zinc and clad coins as well.  I've done copper coins also, but only for a few days.....that's all they needed to remove the crudulation.  I'm glad that you knew this to share on here.......this is what I love about this place and the members.....I've been doing coins for 20 years this year and I still learn new things here all the time!  Thanks for sharing your experiences with us.

Just for informational purposes, here is a link to a token conservation thread that I posted years ago, with before and after pictures. The problem with most of the tokens that I collect is similar to the problems faced by an Ancients collector: most of them are dug from the ground or found in an old building or some other location that is not always conducive to preservation. Unless the finder cleaned them before offering them for sale, many have some dirt at the very least, and, at worst, may have active corrosion. Fortunately, tokens can take a lot of abuse from cleaning methods that should never be used on an uncirculated (or nice circulated) coin.

Link to thread here

[Mohawk]

4 hours ago, Mokiechan said:

I have pocket change that accidently stays in my pocket through a wash cycle and come out absolutely dazzling with brightness. Of course that's dangerous for a valuable coin as there probably lots of hairlines caused by the agitation, etc.   I'm going to experiment with a dirty but relatively valueless coin and see if placing the coin in the laundry, protected from too much agitation, maybe gentle cycle.  What will it look like at the end of the washing?  I will place it in a pants pocket to further reduce its movement.  I have a very ugly, very common, very bullion value only Peace Dollar, just right for this experiment.

You'll have to keep us posted as to how that experiment comes out Mokie....I've washed cents and clad coins but never silver.  This could be quite interesting.

[Mohawk]

2 hours ago, Just Bob said:

Just for informational purposes, here is a link to a token conservation thread that I posted years ago, with before and after pictures. The problem with most of the tokens that I collect is similar to the problems faced by an Ancients collector: most of them are dug from the ground or found in an old building or some other location that is not always conducive to preservation. Unless the finder cleaned them before offering them for sale, many have some dirt at the very least, and, at worst, may have active corrosion. Fortunately, tokens can take a lot of abuse from cleaning methods that should never be used on an uncirculated (or nice circulated) coin.

Link to thread here

Bob,

Thanks for sharing that thread! It's bookmarked on my computer now, too.  It's interesting to contemplate the similarities that the tokens you collect have to the ancients I collect.  When most of the items in your collection have survived by hiding in the ground for a prolonged period of time, you're definitely going to have some preservation issues.  With what I collect, the silver coins are usually no problem. You can find them nice and without too many issues.  Now that I've decided to add copper coins in, though......that's where the real problems start to arise with preservation issues.  I haven't gotten anything too crazy yet, but I know the day will come when that perfect Faustina or Lucilla As or Sestertius shows up and it's heavily afflicted with what Jonathan so accurately describes as smurf-snot.  It's also interesting to hear about the durability of tokens regarding the cleaning methods being discussed.  Great post  

[Crawtomatic]

16 hours ago, Just Bob said:

I have a brass token that has been soaking in olive oil for just shy of five months. In about another month, if the crud is softened,.....

The only problem that I have found with olive oil is that, being slightly acidic, it can change  a copper, bronze or brass coin's appearance if left soaking for a long time. 

Sooo, do you have a different definition of "a long time" than I do?  I would consider soaking something for 6 months a long time.  Maybe that's not.  But then I wonder how many times have copper/bronze/brass items been left soaking in olive oil in excess of half a year that it becomes (un)common knowledge not to soak them that long?

[Reme84]

What about the 1/4 cup of vinegar and 1 teaspoon of salt method? Has anyone tried that or is that not a good method?

[Reme84]

And thank you all for the help, tips, and replies to my wishful errors! 

[Crawtomatic]

4 minutes ago, Reme84 said:

What about the 1/4 cup of vinegar and 1 teaspoon of salt method? Has anyone tried that or is that not a good method?

I hear metal detector enthusiast use that method to clean their coins.  But in their case they're truly cleaning and removing dirt & layers of metal with no real regard for the numismatic value of the coin itself.

[Mokiechan]

1 hour ago, Mohawk said:

You'll have to keep us posted as to how that experiment comes out Mokie....I've washed cents and clad coins but never silver.  This could be quite interesting.

I finished the experiment already and honestly, the change in the appearance of the Dollar is so minimal that I can hardly see the difference.  Maybe slightly more reflective?  The pictures do not really help.  But, bottom line, it made no dramatic improvement as far as I could see.  Peace 1 is before, Peace 2 is after.  BTW, the coin did migrate out of the pocket into the main tub, as is usually the case with my loose quarters, etc.