Cupronickel?
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Hey everyone. I have a quick question. Does cupronickel attack to a magnet? Google says yes but what I have do not and since the coins were stamped in both the cupronickel and silver I am hoping I have the silver versions. Thanks a bunch!

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2 hours ago, KarenHolcomb said:

Hey everyone. I have a quick question. Does cupronickel attack to a magnet? Google says yes but what I have do not and since the coins were stamped in both the cupronickel and silver I am hoping I have the silver versions. Thanks a bunch!

Not normally. Nickel has to be nearly 100% to be attracted to a magnet. Old Canadian nickels will, but our nickels won't. I believe it's because ours are not a high enough percentage of nickel, and theirs were. (Not sure what their current coinage is made of.) I doubt that nickel-bronze and nickel-brass (not uncommon alloys in world coinages) will adhere to a magnet either.

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Cupronickel is 75% Copper & only 25% Nickel, not enough to stick to a magnet

Canada used the same cupronickel between 1982 & 2001. Since then they have used plated steel.

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Thanks so much guys. I appreciate the info. Looks like I got taken. But at least I don't think the guy knew they weren't silver either.

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34 minutes ago, KarenHolcomb said:

Thanks so much guys. I appreciate the info. Looks like I got taken. But at least I don't think the guy knew they weren't silver either.

Small point of nomenclature: coins are said to be struck (unless of course they are cast), not stamped.
When there's a situation like that, it's rare for the weights to match up precisely, so that would be your best method of distinguishing silver from CuNi (until you get good enough to discern by sight).

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I can never remember the word so I say stamped because it is so much like the stamping plant I worked in. But I will try to do better. Thank you kind sir.

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Just now, KarenHolcomb said:

I can never remember the word so I say stamped because it is so much like the stamping plant I worked in. But I will try to do better. Thank you kind sir.

You didn't do anything wrong, just a bit of education so that people give you credit for the experience you have developed.

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Thanks JKK. Do you know somewhere I can look, like a website, to see a list of frequently counterfeiters coins? I'm just not so sure these aren't silver. There is ALWAYS a weight allowance on coins, right? I mean to say that there is no way for every coin of a particular type to be exactly like 28.24oz? Right?

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It would have to be a pretty large coin to weigh 28.24 oz. but you are right, there is an acceptable weight tolerance for all coins. (Even Gold but it is minimal)

You don't mention what coins you have but the best way to determine if they are silver or cupronickel is to weigh them. Silver would weigh more.

As far as counterfeits go, there is no website that I know of dedicated to counterfeit coins but sometimes you can find info on an individual coin.

If you have a coin you are unsure of, post a picture of both sides on the counterfeit  forum and there are many people here who can help determine if it is genuine or not.

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7 hours ago, KarenHolcomb said:

Thanks JKK. Do you know somewhere I can look, like a website, to see a list of frequently counterfeiters coins? I'm just not so sure these aren't silver. There is ALWAYS a weight allowance on coins, right? I mean to say that there is no way for every coin of a particular type to be exactly like 28.24oz? Right?

I don't know of a master listing of these. However, I would be very careful to authenticate:

  • Anything made of gold.
  • Anything with a significant numismatic premium if authentic. This would include the avalanche of supposed 1804 silver dollars, 1776 Continental dollars, and so forth that get posted here by people who imagine they just found retirement money. Any 09-S VDB, for example, or 16-D Merc.
  • Anything of a type that circulated heavily in China and is represented as silver.
  • Anything that just looks too good to be true. I know that's very nebulous but I think people know what I mean.

Do also bear in mind that a coin could be silver and still be a counterfeit. If I were a master counterfeiter, I would take great care to assure that my metallurgy matched the original coin as perfectly as possible. $12 in metal in order to make a fake Morgan worth thousands would be a petty investment compared to the time involved in setting up to strike (or cast...notice that casting is not striking) counterfeits.

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Ok. Ok. I may have mislead you. Here is what I bought and they aren't anything as nice or commonly counterfeited as a Morgan Dollar or Mercury Dime. Just some, I guess, Canadian, WWII Commemoratives that I assumed were Silver except the COA said Cupro-nickel. I can't find them online anywhere as a set but did separately on Ebay and those are all Silver. There was one site in Great Britain but my browser said it was dangerous and I wasn't willing to risk being hacked over 50 bucks. You know, Guy showed up here at 7am, hungry and needing gas money so I did a quick online check, saw silver, fed him and gave him $50. So, I mean Karma will smile on me and I'm not really out too much, I'd just like to know if they are silver or not. The weights for silver ones are 28.28 and mine range from 28.48-28.82. Again, I can't find them in this cupro-nickel to have any data.  Honestly it isn't a giant deal, I would just like to know whether to take care with them or toss them into the bowl with the Morgan and Mercury my friend found in an old car(they are definitely counterfeits). I did a drop test with one of them and it sounded nothing like the fake Morgan I have which I was told is likely Tungsten and not exactly like a genuine Morgan either, although there is a high ping it just isn't quite the same as the ping of one of my Morgans. Honestly, at this point I am too cheap to put out any real cash on anything, especially without doing research. I am still a bit green but not that green. Lol! So here is a collage. The Obverse is the same on them all.

20190623_215840.jpeg

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Those coins are from the Isle of Man and are a set of five commemorating fighter aircraft of WWII.

The sets came in Cupronickle and a Proof Set made of silver.

You did not overpay as that is about the going price for a set in Cupronickel. I think the Silver Proof coins sell for about $250.00 a set.

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10 hours ago, KarenHolcomb said:

Do you know somewhere I can look, like a website, to see a list of frequently counterfeiters coins?

Start with the Redbook, just about everything in there has been counterfeited.

 

10 hours ago, KarenHolcomb said:

There is ALWAYS a weight allowance on coins, right?

Correct.

And that series does come in both coppernickel business strike quality and silver in Proof condition.  The weight does most likely match silver and not coppernickel.  A copper nickel coin the size of the silver ones would weigh nearly 4 grams less.  Looks like there are 19 pieces in the full set (38 if you get both compositions)  You appear to have KM512a top right, middle left and right KM510a, KM511a, bottom left KM519a, and KM515a bottom right.  The set numbers run 502 through 520 inclusively.

Edited by Conder101

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Ok. Greenstang and Conder, where did y'all even get this information because I found nothing except the individual silver coins. I did think there were either 12 or 19. Where I got that at idk because I was on so many sites.

Conder, you say the cupronickel should weigh in about 4g less than silver then I must have Silver, right? Mine weigh in at: 2-28.45, 1-28.48, 1-28.56, and finally 1 at a whopping 28.82. So then they are Silver. Humph! Who'd have guessed that I would get such a deal. I should probably give him some more for them. Poor guy sold everything including his house to bury his mom and his luck has been since. 

Bob, I have no idea what the tissue test is or if it works on Proofs. I am willing to take the test if you tell me what it is, but only on the one that I did the ping test on. Lol!

Thanks a bunch fellows. I always come to you guys when it counts and you never have let me down. You guys are great.

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This is a quote from an earlier thread, posted by Conder101:

 

"Tissue test. Put a single layer of tissue paper over them.  Clad proofs will appear gray, silver proofs will appear white.  This works whether they are in their original cases or not.  A quick easy test and good if it isn't possible to see the edge or weigh them." 

Edited by Just Bob

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12 hours ago, KarenHolcomb said:

Ok. Greenstang and Conder, where did y'all even get this information because I found nothing except the individual silver coins. I did think there were either 12 or 19. Where I got that at idk because I was on so many sites.

Conder, you say the cupronickel should weigh in about 4g less than silver then I must have Silver, right? Mine weigh in at: 2-28.45, 1-28.48, 1-28.56, and finally 1 at a whopping 28.82. So then they are Silver. Humph! Who'd have guessed that I would get such a deal. I should probably give him some more for them. Poor guy sold everything including his house to bury his mom and his luck has been since. 

Bob, I have no idea what the tissue test is or if it works on Proofs. I am willing to take the test if you tell me what it is, but only on the one that I did the ping test on. Lol!

Thanks a bunch fellows. I always come to you guys when it counts and you never have let me down. You guys are great.

Hope this helps, not sure how reliable this website is. 

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces35673.html this link matches one of the coins in the picture and the following is a list for most releases. https://en.numista.com/catalogue/ile_de_man-20.html

Hope this helps. 

 

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13 hours ago, KarenHolcomb said:

Ok. Greenstang and Conder, where did y'all even get this information because I found nothing except the individual silver coins. I did think there were either 12 or 19. Where I got that at idk because I was on so many sites.

Conder, you say the cupronickel should weigh in about 4g less than silver then I must have Silver, right? Mine weigh in at: 2-28.45, 1-28.48, 1-28.56, and finally 1 at a whopping 28.82. So then they are Silver. Humph! Who'd have guessed that I would get such a deal. I should probably give him some more for them. Poor guy sold everything including his house to bury his mom and his luck has been since. 

Bob, I have no idea what the tissue test is or if it works on Proofs. I am willing to take the test if you tell me what it is, but only on the one that I did the ping test on. Lol!

Thanks a bunch fellows. I always come to you guys when it counts and you never have let me down. You guys are great.

Here are some standard specs for the silver coins from that mint. 

Metal Proof Fine 999. Silver
Diameter 38.60mm
Weight 31.103gms
Issue Limit

10,000

 

and these are for the Cupronickel coins 

Metal Uncirculated Cupro Nickel
Diameter 38.60mm
Weight 28.28gms
Issue Limit

Unlimited

Source: https://www.pobjoy.com/us/products/view/isle-of-man-2015-selkirk-rex-cat-uncirculated-cupro-nickel-coin

hope this helps 

 

 

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21 hours ago, Just Bob said:

Does the tissue test work with proofs?

Yes.

19 hours ago, KarenHolcomb said:

Conder, where did y'all even get this information 

Standard Catalog of World Coins 37th edition.  The catalog only lists the weight for the silver version and it lists it as 28.28 grams.  Since the crowns are roughly the same size as an Ike dollar (they are a little larger)  I assumed the weight of the copper nickel would be a little more than the weight of a coppernickel Ike which should be around roughly 24 grams.  So based on the weight listed in the standard catalog they should be silver.

 

5 hours ago, Dukemnm said:

Here are some standard specs for the silver coins from that mint. 

Interesting.  The silver version of the coins shown though would be a little less than the weight shown for the cat coin in the link that was provided because the cat is .999 fine and the Aircraft of WWI coins are sterling .925 fine.  I find their listed weight for the coppernickel unusually high.  For that number to be correct the coin woulld have to be very thick, about 25% thicker than an Ike dollar.

The tissue test should be a quick and easy way to determine if they are silver of not.  Just put a single layer of facial or toilet tissue over them.  It they are silver it will be obvious.  If you want put a coppernickel Ike, kennedy half, or even a quarter in with them to see if there is a difference in the color seen through the tissue.  

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11 hours ago, Just Bob said:

This is a quote from an earlier thread, posted by Conder101:

 

"Tissue test. Put a single layer of tissue paper over them.  Clad proofs will appear gray, silver proofs will appear white.  This works whether they are in their original cases or not.  A quick easy test and good if it isn't possible to see the edge or weigh them." 

Well, my Clad looks yellow and the one in question is grey. Ike on the left and Elizabeth II ON the right. So possibly not Silver.

0625192116.jpg

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11 hours ago, Just Bob said:

This is a quote from an earlier thread, posted by Conder101:

 

"Tissue test. Put a single layer of tissue paper over them.  Clad proofs will appear gray, silver proofs will appear white.  This works whether they are in their original cases or not.  A quick easy test and good if it isn't possible to see the edge or weigh them." 

 

6 hours ago, Dukemnm said:

Here are some standard specs for the silver coins from that mint. 

Metal Proof Fine 999. Silver
Diameter 38.60mm
Weight 31.103gms
Issue Limit

10,000

 

and these are for the Cupronickel coins 

Metal Uncirculated Cupro Nickel
Diameter 38.60mm
Weight 28.28gms
Issue Limit

Unlimited

Source: https://www.pobjoy.com/us/products/view/isle-of-man-2015-selkirk-rex-cat-uncirculated-cupro-nickel-coin

hope this helps 

 

 

So then mine weigh in as Cupronickel. But eBay was selling silver ones and they advertised the weights as like 28. 28 I think.

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Okie doke. I am more cornfused than ever. I had been to all the above links given in my searches. So they weigh in as Silver but look less silver than a Clad Ike under a tissue. Go figure. Probably are some kind of new Chinese secret metal.

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3 hours ago, KarenHolcomb said:

 

So then mine weigh in as Cupronickel. But eBay was selling silver ones and they advertised the weights as like 28. 28 I think.

 

4 hours ago, Conder101 said:

Yes.

Standard Catalog of World Coins 37th edition.  The catalog only lists the weight for the silver version and it lists it as 28.28 grams.  Since the crowns are roughly the same size as an Ike dollar (they are a little larger)  I assumed the weight of the copper nickel would be a little more than the weight of a coppernickel Ike which should be around roughly 24 grams.  So based on the weight listed in the standard catalog they should be silver.

 

Interesting.  The silver version of the coins shown though would be a little less than the weight shown for the cat coin in the link that was provided because the cat is .999 fine and the Aircraft of WWI coins are sterling .925 fine.  I find their listed weight for the coppernickel unusually high.  For that number to be correct the coin woulld have to be very thick, about 25% thicker than an Ike dollar.

The tissue test should be a quick and easy way to determine if they are silver of not.  Just put a single layer of facial or toilet tissue over them.  It they are silver it will be obvious.  If you want put a coppernickel Ike, kennedy half, or even a quarter in with them to see if there is a difference in the color seen through the tissue.  

I think @Conder101 Specs are more accurate than what I may have posted. Sorry if I caused any confusion. 

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Hey, that's no problem. Y'all got me looking even further into it and I didn't get a headache this time.

And so we are all in agreement, even with the tissue test, that I have the silver set? 

Thank you all so much for your responses and help in figuring this mystery out.

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But the tissue test is saying they are coppernickel.  There is no way you should be getting that kind of result if they were sterling silver.  Tis a puzzlement.  I guess next step is either Specific gravity or shoot them with an XRF gun.

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7 hours ago, KarenHolcomb said:

 

And so we are all in agreement, even with the tissue test, that I have the silver set? 

 

I'm not. I think they are copper-nickel, and the additional thickness - judging by your picture - accounts for the additional weight. Add the tissue test results to that, and I don't think they are silver.

I have been wrong more than once, though.

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I am going to lean to coppernickle, and even if they were, the price for each is not too shabby! I believe that if they were Silver, they should have been inside a capsule unless someone took them out. But who would? 

Anyway - I went and experimented with a tissue test myself, just to see how it works. Here are my results. Might help clarify some! 

 

 

20190625_212124.jpg

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Left to right,   Coppernickle, 10% silver, 80% silver, and .999% 

20190625_212054.thumb.jpg.7f3b45d56480ff02a532ba1295be4a44.jpg

Edited by Dukemnm

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