Damage?
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I found these mark on the ATB quarter.  The letters appear to be stamped over the mark.  How might that happen?  The mark continues around the coin.

 

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Edited by TimSweet
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 I have several from the same mint roll.  Wouldn't that take the letters too?  In the picture with date, does it look like the  2 and the E is stamped on top of the mark?

Thanks

Tim

 

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I have several from the same mint roll.  Wouldn't that take the letters too?

Not quite sure what you mean by this. As I stated, it is only the coins on the ends that are affected. The letters and date are incuse so they wouldn't be touched by the coin wrapping machine.

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there are several coins in the roll with similar markings.   And the lines of the letters are untouched.  Which to me anyway indicates that the mark preceded lettering.

Thanks

Tim

Edited by TimSweet
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16 minutes ago, TimSweet said:

there are several coins in the roll with similar markings.   And the lines of the letters are untouched.  Which to me anyway indicates that the mark preceded lettering.

Thanks

Tim

I'm with Greenstang.  It's post minting damage.  If a planchet had a mark like that before it was struck, the process of actually striking the planchet into a coin would likely eliminate the mark as the metal is actually moving and flowing under the pressure of being struck.  However, a rolling or counting machine would easily cause marks like you are seeing and such machine caused damage would not be limited to only the coins on the ends of the roll.....all of the coins would go through such a machine and all would be exposed to the chance of being damaged by the machine in question.

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34 minutes ago, Mohawk said:

I'm with Greenstang.  It's post minting damage.  If a planchet had a mark like that before it was struck, the process of actually striking the planchet into a coin would likely eliminate the mark as the metal is actually moving and flowing under the pressure of being struck.  However, a rolling or counting machine would easily cause marks like you are seeing and such machine caused damage would not be limited to only the coins on the ends of the roll.....all of the coins would go through such a machine and all would be exposed to the chance of being damaged by the machine in question.

That makes sense, but won't the letters be scuffed as well?   I was thinking that only the ends would be impacted as it was described.

I'm a watchmaker and I'm familiar with metal work, but not when it comes to minting coins.  Closest I've come to that is stamped brass. If took a finished coin and put in on my lathe I could produce that mark, but it would take the letters as well.  I would assume that if that mark occurred after then the letters would have the mark as well....they appear not to be, even with a magnification...but I'm not sure.  That was what had be baffled.

Thanks for all the responses.   Just to be clear, I'm not an error hunter, normally.

 

Tim

Edited by TimSweet
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1 minute ago, TimSweet said:

That makes sense, but won't the letters be scuffed as well?   I was thinking that only the ends would be impacted as it was described.

I'm a watchmaker and I'm familiar with metal work, but not when it comes to minting coins.  Closest I've come to that is stamped brass. If took a finished coin and put in on my lathe I could produce that mark, but it would take the letters as well.  I would assume that if that mark occurred after then the letters would have the mark as well....they appear to be, even with a magnification...but I'm not sure.  That was what had be baffled.

Thanks for all the responses.   Just to be clear, I'm not an error hunter, normally.

 

Tim

Well.....I think you have an apples and oranges kind of comparison here.  Metal work as it pertains to watchmaking is not applicable to coins and what happens to them both during and after minting.  They're two different things.  Coin rolling and counting machines aren't designed to damage coins but they aren't really designed not to damage them either.  I've seen many, many damaged coins in my time and I think you are fixating way too much on the lettering here.  Basically, when looking at coins as possible errors, you need to ask yourself if there is any way that what you are seeing was created during the minting process.  If there isn't a way that happened, what you are seeing is post minting damage.  There is no way that I can think of that what happened to your coins happened during the minting process, so it has to be PMD.  I've seen many, many coins that look just like yours that got scraped up in rolling machines.  I'm confident that's what happened to your coins.

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Here's what I've learned.    The marks on this coin don't touch the letters because the lettering is incused and not raised.   Whatever in the process created these marks was only hitting the highest parts of the coin.  Had this been on the front where the letters are raised it would have taken the letters.   Sound right?

Thanks

Tim 

Edited by TimSweet
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11 minutes ago, TimSweet said:

Here's what I've learned.    The marks on this coin don't touch the letters because the lettering is incused and not raised.   Whatever in the process created these marks was only hitting the highest parts of the coin.  Had this been on the front where the letters are raised it would have taken the letters.   Sound right?

Thanks

Tim 

Sounds right.

And, the fact that there are other coins in the roll that have similar markings means that these coins were probably either on the end of a different roll at some point, or they were damaged by another type of machine. Coins do not come from the mint in rolls. They are rolled by banks, Loomis, individuals, etc. The coins in your roll could have been in one or more other rolls during their short lifetime.

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Yes I learned that the US Mint in many cases ships the coins to a third party to roll.  I think the use of the term "From a Mint Roll" has some validity, however slight it might be and it's a big deal with marketing.   When you boil it down, it means the coins have changed hands less thereby, possibly a better chance of meeting the Uncirculated grading.  But I'm gathering that it's not always the case.

Thanks again.

Tim 

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On 6/5/2019 at 4:14 PM, TimSweet said:

Yes I learned that the US Mint in many cases ships the coins to a third party to roll.

I believe in ALL cases.  Even the rolls the mint sells directly to collectors I believe are actually rolled by a third party.

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