Krause t.u.? 0

[JKK]

Happened across a thread on another board talking about Krause's parent company filing bankruptcy back in March. Anyone know more about this? We've all cussed Krause at one point or another, but most of us also use it or at least its catalogue numbers. I wonder if there is any possibility the KP franchise will be sold off, and if so to whom, or if anything else looks poised to replace it.

[GW]

Doing a quick Google search it looks like you might be right. 

https://coinweek.com/coins/supplies/books-2/fw-publisher-of-numismatic-news-declares-bankruptcy/

https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-coins/2019/03/numismatic-news-owner-files-for-chapter-11-bankruptcy.all.html

 

[Just Bob]

I have a feeling Chester Krause would be very disappointed.

Edited May 22, 2019 by Just Bob
spelling

[Zebo]

I've always thought that the Krause numbers were very limiting compared to Spinks and Marsh for the series that I collect. I've never purchased one of their catalogs, but have relied on others for the same content.

[Conder101]

But do Spinks or Marsh publish catalogs that cover the entire world for a 500 year span?  Any specialized catalog that covers a single country can do a more indepth job, but to cover the whole world that way you would need about 350 books.  And then how often would you have to buy another set?  The Standard Catalog served a needed purpose.  I certainly hope someone that has the money to put into it and do it right purchases it.  I know Whitman toyed with the idea of a world catalog along those lines but never did anything with it.  This would be a good opportunity for them rather than having to create the data base and gather the images from scratch.

[World Colonial]

45 minutes ago, Conder101 said:

But do Spinks or Marsh publish catalogs that cover the entire world for a 500 year span?  Any specialized catalog that covers a single country can do a more indepth job, but to cover the whole world that way you would need about 350 books.  And then how often would you have to buy another set?  The Standard Catalog served a needed purpose.  I certainly hope someone that has the money to put into it and do it right purchases it.  I know Whitman toyed with the idea of a world catalog along those lines but never did anything with it.  This would be a good opportunity for them rather than having to create the data base and gather the images from scratch.

I own a hard copy of the 18th to 20th centuries and all are in storage.  Initially back in 1998 when I resumed collecting, I used it to determine what was available to collect once I decided it wouldn't be US coins. It is useful for attribution but not otherwise.  

I'd curious to know your definition of "doing it right".  I see no prospect that it will be remotely "accurate" or useful as a value guide. The prices are just made up and it will never be economical to even attempt to publish prices for over one million price points updated with any frequency.

I presume from accounts I have heard that collectors believe it has been mismanaged since it was acquired.  My suspicion is that it's mostly because their business model became outdated and no longer relevant in the internet age.  

[Numismatic, A.A.S.]

8 hours ago, Conder101 said:

But do Spinks or Marsh publish catalogs that cover the entire world for a 500 year span?  Any specialized catalog that covers a single country can do a more indepth job, but to cover the whole world that way you would need about 350 books.  And then how often would you have to buy another set?  The Standard Catalog served a needed purpose.  I certainly hope someone that has the money to put into it and do it right purchases it.  I know Whitman toyed with the idea of a world catalog along those lines but never did anything with it.  This would be a good opportunity for them rather than having to create the data base and gather the images from scratch.

Just think about the confusion there will be when Say...mintage of African countries Gold coins are documented at wrong numbers from several sources or worst, copy cat companies spring up and rush this vital resource...Chester had the Sources...him and that other person...wonder if the family was involved in any silver speculation???

[Conder101]

21 hours ago, World Colonial said:

I'd curious to know your definition of "doing it right".  I see no prospect that it will be remotely "accurate" or useful as a value guide.

No book of prices will ever be "accurate" as a value guide, but one done right should at least put you in the ball park.  As for "doing it right", how about being more up to date with types and dates than five years before the date on the cover (I have two double row boxes of coins going back 5 years that aren't in the latest issue), not leaving out part of or even entire countries, improve the images, stop dropping images etc.

 

21 hours ago, World Colonial said:

I presume from accounts I have heard that collectors believe it has been mismanaged since it was acquired.  My suspicion is that it's mostly because their business model became outdated and no longer relevant in the internet age.  

The major errors did start occurring right after they were sold to F&W, but the biggest problem and reason for the decline was F&W was constantly cutting funding and firing or not replacing staff that quit.  The entire 500 years of catalogs and the other specialty world coin catalogs are all done by a staff of five to eight people.  It is just too big a job for a staff that size.

[World Colonial]

23 hours ago, Conder101 said:

No book of prices will ever be "accurate" as a value guide, but one done right should at least put you in the ball park.  As for "doing it right", how about being more up to date with types and dates than five years before the date on the cover (I have two double row boxes of coins going back 5 years that aren't in the latest issue), not leaving out part of or even entire countries, improve the images, stop dropping images etc.

I don't see how it can ever be in the ballpark either.  There are too many coins which sell infrequently, whether in grade or otherwise and it will never be economical for most of the values to be anything other than a guess.  The problem is, I don't think that most collectors know that most price listings are anything other than just made up.

Here are some examples:

Coins listed that either do not or likely do not exist:  South Africa Union 1933, 1934 and 1936 business strike farthings.  The 1936 is in dispute, as NGC has four listed in the census.  The mintage is supposedly three but South African collectors don't fully accept these coins.  The 1953 "matte proof" crown is another.  South African collectors have never heard of it and it isn't listed in any local guide.  Bolivia 1882 and 1889 50 centavos might be another.

Coins which either have not sold at all or in the listed grade:  Krause lists the South Africa 1931 florin in "UNC" at $1250.  NGC only recently graded an MS-63 and I wouldn't buy it without a second opinion, as there are instances where proofs have been graded as business strikes.  Regardless, the has probably never sold publicly (there appears to be no record of it) and this equally applies in lower listed grades.  Krause also lists value in multiple grades for the 1752 Peru 4R.  According to Brad Yonaka's recent volume, a single coin is believed to exist.  Gilboy lists it as an R5 (1 to 3 known) but apparently, he couldn't find one in the numerous auction catalogs listed as references.  Patterson and Norweb didn't have it either.

Attribution accuracy would be nice but ultimately, I don't see why anyone who has bought one version will ever need a second since the price listings are worthless anyway.  That is, unless they collect modern NCLT.  I have no intention of updating my 1998 ever.

[Miguel del Rio]

One of the global publications' weaknesses it that it is impossible to contact a specific contributor to correct a catalog coin specification, to report a coin variety, to report a fantasy issue, or to add a coin.

The online publications are better with corrections, though they are more incomplete than the traditional guides.

In many instances, the traditional guides are the only source for the online publications.

[World Colonial]

On ‎5‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 3:13 AM, Miguel del Rio said:

One of the global publications' weaknesses it that it is impossible to contact a specific contributor to correct a catalog coin specification, to report a coin variety, to report a fantasy issue, or to add a coin.

The online publications are better with corrections, though they are more incomplete than the traditional guides.

In many instances, the traditional guides are the only source for the online publications.

Accuracy and completeness require a lot of work.  In the coins I almost exclusively buy now, I only recently was able to find mintage data.  Krause doesn't include it for most listings and in some (or many) instances, it might not be available at all.

[Fenntucky Mike]

Has there been any updates since Krause Publications was acquired by PRH?

Trail seams to go cold around June last year.

Last publication of a Standard Catalog looks to be the 47th (1901-2000) in July of 19, just curious if it's business as normal at KP or if they are t.u..

Mike,

[Conder101]

On 5/24/2019 at 4:41 PM, World Colonial said:

I don't see how it can ever be in the ballpark either.  There are too many coins which sell infrequently, whether in grade or otherwise and it will never be economical for most of the values to be anything other than a guess.  The problem is, I don't think that most collectors know that most price listings are anything other than just made up.

I don't care if they are inaccurate on price of grade, I just would like them to be as up to date on types, and compositions/size would also be very helpful.  I do the world by type since 1860 (no gold or NCLT).  I currently have two 14 inch double row boxes, some dating back 5 or 6 years which still are not listed.

 

I'm still wondering what will happen with the catalogs as one company owns the rights to the book and another company owns the database the books are compiled from.