1943 s steel penny S/S

[Hinkle]

I went into NGC variety list, and couldn't find a S/S but just a D/D. I'm trying to look at some  to compare. To get an idea what one looks like.This one looks pretty close. I also see no doubling anywhere else on coin. Just the mint mark. What do you guy's think. 🤔

[Hinkle]

[Mohawk]

Hi Hinkle,

It does indeed look like you've got something going on with that mint mark.  Variety Vista indeed shows several RPMs for the 1943-S Cent, which makes sense because they made a TON of the things, which means a ton of dies were needed.  Here's the link to the Variety Vista page:

http://www.varietyvista.com/02a LC RPMs Vol 1/RPMs 1943S.htm

In looking at varieties on NGC, it is important to remember that NGC does not recognize all known varieties.  They tend to focus in on the ones that are popular with collectors.....things like the 1970-S Small and Large Date cents, the 1979 and 1981 Type 2 Proof Coins, the 1972 Type 2 Eisenhower Dollar.....things like that.  There are tons that they do not recognize.

I hope this helps you Hinkle!  For what it's worth from a World Coin guy who sells US moderns and who recently got into ancients, I do think you have an actual RPM there.

Cheers!

~Tom

[Hinkle]

2 hours ago, Mohawk said:

Hi Hinkle,

It does indeed look like you've got something going on with that mint mark.  Variety Vista indeed shows several RPMs for the 1943-S Cent, which makes sense because they made a TON of the things, which means a ton of dies were needed.  Here's the link to the Variety Vista page:

http://www.varietyvista.com/02a LC RPMs Vol 1/RPMs 1943S.htm

In looking at varieties on NGC, it is important to remember that NGC does not recognize all known varieties.  They tend to focus in on the ones that are popular with collectors.....things like the 1970-S Small and Large Date cents, the 1979 and 1981 Type 2 Proof Coins, the 1972 Type 2 Eisenhower Dollar.....things like that.  There are tons that they do not recognize.

I hope this helps you Hinkle!  For what it's worth from a World Coin guy who sells US moderns and who recently got into ancients, I do think you have an actual RPM there.

Cheers!

~Tom

Hi Tom,  well I went to the link you put up and emailed a comment about the coin also photos. James wiles emailed me back and called it a die deterioration doubling. I really thought that was an actual error. Dang , but that's good still hunting for some more good ones.🧐 Thank you for your help on this one.

[Mohawk]

Damn!  That one fooled me too! It's hard to tell that stuff from photos sometimes!  Ah well....onto the next!  Good luck with your continued hunting!

[WK007]

Hummm, I did not know that.

[Hinkle]

9 minutes ago, WK007 said:

Hummm, I did not know that.

Right, it threw me off too on this one. Because when you don't see other doubling just the mint mark, you would think it's a rpm. By looking at it it's going south west. Interesting, and looking at others in the link I went into this one for sure looks like an rpm. I feel some you would have to have a microscope to see and some would be an obvious look in normal pics. It's pretty cool looking though. 

[Just Bob]

James Wiles seems to be very good about responding to inquiries that are sent to him, and I think that is very good of him, and definitely good for the hobby. He is a smarter man than I am, and has much more experience in errors and varieties, but I do not agree with everything that he calls mechanical doubling. He is probably right, and I am probably wrong, but I am entitled to my own opinion.

[DWLange]

Let's stop this discussion right here. That coin has a form of doubling commonly seen on 1943 cents that resulted from the erosive effects of the plated planchets. A line from the duplicate mintmark image toward the primary one points directly at the center of the coin, confirming that it is simply a result of die erosion. This is commonly seen on both the date and mintmark, always in the same direction away from the center.

NGC gets a dozen or more such coins each week, and they are all returned with the same conclusion.

Regarding Mohawk's observation that NGC attributes only the most popular varieties, that is simply not true. The VarietyPlus listings are quite extensive, with new ones being added weekly---but only when such coins are submitted. Legitimate varieties will be attributed when we have an example to photograph. To get some idea of how extensive our listings are check out the pages for 1960-D cents or 1943-P nickels.