Apollo 11 Half Dollar Set

[investinrehabs]

I see that the set sold out pretty quick. I didn't realize the Kennedy was a reverse enhanced proof. They're selling the sets on ebay for $70-$80. Does anyone think this is worth buying? I was told this is the first reverse enhanced proof Kennedy that's been out out. 

[Mohawk]

It depends on if you want this set for its own sake or if you're looking at this set as a possible investment.  If you like the set for its own sake, then, yes, you should buy one......though I'd wait a bit.  If you're looking at this as an investment, then I'd say no, this is not the thing to buy.  The last thread where you asked about this, I posted reasons why I thought this set was not a good investment and all of those still stand, even though they're selling for higher prices right now.  They key phrase here is right now.   These Apollo 11 coins are a numismatic fad, and they're having their 15 minutes of fame right now, so everyone is going crazy about them who didn't order them from the US Mint for the various reasons that would prevent someone from ordering the coins through the US Mint website.  Very few modern US Mint products since at least 2006 have held their value in the long term, and most of the products that have held their value are either from the Eagle series or commemoratives which have sold poorly and have very low mintages as a result.  The Apollo 11 coins, all of them including this set, have none of these factors.  They're more like the 2014 Baseball coins, as I said in the last post on this set.  In that thread I said they're going to be hotter than the sun for 5 minutes and then die.  We're in that 5 minutes right now. 

Generally speaking, current US Mint products are not good investment tools if investment is what you are looking for with coins.  There are good US moderns, yes, but most of those are from the 1960's, 1970's, 1980's and 1990's and they are mostly errors and varieties, not standard issue coins.  There are some exceptions to this general rule, like the 1995-W Silver Eagle, but this Half Dollar Set is no 1995-W Silver Eagle.  It's a clad commemorative with a mintage limit of 750,000 coins and a clad Reverse Proof Kennedy Half Dollar with a mintage of 100,000.  It's also not the first Reverse Proof Kennedy, it's only the first clad Reverse Proof Kennedy.  And, though the US Mint claims it to be some kind of "Enhanced Reverse Proof", I don't see any differences between the 2019-S coin and the 2014-W and the 2018-S Reverse Proof Kennedy Halves except for the composition.  However, you've asked about this set twice now.  I think the question you need to ask yourself now is: Do I like this set?  If you do you should buy it for your collection because that's what collecting should be about.  If you like this as a collectible, you should pursue it, but if it's just about making money, then I'd definitely pass on it.

[Matt_dac]

I have not looked specifically at the half dollar set, but the PF70's are hotter than Hades right now.  PF69's are widely available without high markups over grading fees.  For example, I found the PF69 5 oz puck for $309 or best offer shipped compared to $535 obo for the PF70 on Ebay.  I found the PF69 gold for $482 obo compared to $600 obo for the PF70 shipped on Ebay.  

[Mohawk]

4 hours ago, Matt_dac said:

I have not looked specifically at the half dollar set, but the PF70's are hotter than Hades right now.  PF69's are widely available without high markups over grading fees.  For example, I found the PF69 5 oz puck for $309 or best offer shipped compared to $535 obo for the PF70 on Ebay.  I found the PF69 gold for $482 obo compared to $600 obo for the PF70 shipped on Ebay.  

Yep.....they're having their 15 minutes of fame right now.  No doubt about it.  But what will they be doing 6 months from now? Or at this time next year?  My guess is not much.  The 2014 Baseball coins did this as well, and look at where they are now compared to then.

[Matt_dac]

52 minutes ago, Mohawk said:

Yep.....they're having their 15 minutes of fame right now.  No doubt about it.  But what will they be doing 6 months from now? Or at this time next year?  My guess is not much.  The 2014 Baseball coins did this as well, and look at where they are now compared to then.

It will be interesting to see.  I also wonder if any other coins in the Apollo series will sell out before the end of the year. 

[Mokiechan]

Normally I do not like reverse proofs, the mirror finish on the main design elements are too shiny and it makes it difficult to see the detail,  But, the Enhanced Reverse Proof Kennedy has a slight matte finish and actually makes the Kennedy really show off its detail and makes it IMHO the best looking Kennedy half ever made.  With 100K mintage, this Kennedy Half may turn out to be a long term winner.  We shall see.  The Apollo 11 coins will just be another loser down the line.

[Mohawk]

21 minutes ago, Mokiechan said:

Normally I do not like reverse proofs, the mirror finish on the main design elements are too shiny and it makes it difficult to see the detail,  But, the Enhanced Reverse Proof Kennedy has a slight matte finish and actually makes the Kennedy really show off its detail and makes it IMHO the best looking Kennedy half ever made.  With 100K mintage, this Kennedy Half may turn out to be a long term winner.  We shall see.  The Apollo 11 coins will just be another lose down the line.

I can see why you may think it may be a winner.  But I think it has some baggage that it may not overcome in the long term.  First up, it's not silver.  While there are many people who don't mind a base metal composition (I'm one of them), there are also many people that have disdain for modern base metal non-circulating legal tender coinage.  It's true that the Kennedy Half Dollar is a popular series, there are many collectors of that series that only collect the business strikes and that only collect the silver issues.  The 2019-S Reverse Proof will not appeal to either of these crowds, though it will appeal to collectors who pursue the whole Kennedy series, and there are a lot of those collectors as well.  I also think that, though you seem to indicate that the 2019-S coin has a slightly different appearance than the 2014-W and 2018-S coins, how many collectors are really going to notice that or care about it?  The only unique facet that I feel many collectors will focus on with the 2019-S is the negative one......that it is not a silver coin and that it was a very high priced clad coin.  I think that this decision by the US Mint created some ill will among the collecting community.  I've heard many, many people say that for the $53.95 price tag on the Apollo 11 Half Dollar set, the Kennedy at least should have been silver as that would have made the price much more reasonable.  My opinion, which is shared by several people I've spoken to on this issue, is that both coins should have been silver and both coins should have been reverse proofs.  Then the set would definitely have been a winner.  But that didn't happen, as we know.  However, it's hard to say how bad this will hurt the coin in the long run.  I've been wrong before, but I don't think the future for this particular coin is as bright as some other issues, like the 1998-S Matte Finish.  The 1998-S Matte Finish has two things going for it that the 2019-S Reverse Proof does not: namely it is still unique and it's silver, but even the 1998-S Matte has seen some downward pricing in recent years.  The 1998-S Matte also has a lower mintage than the 2019-S (62,000 vs. 100,000) and, as far as I know, it didn't have the collector ill will about the pricing of it out of the gate.  It also appeals to the silver-only Kennedy crowd, which the 2019-S Reverse Proof does not, so I'd say demand for the 1998-S Matte is likely higher as well.  I guess we'll just have to wait and see about this coin.

[Mokiechan]

2 hours ago, Mohawk said:

I can see why you may think it may be a winner.  But I think it has some baggage that it may not overcome in the long term.  First up, it's not silver.  While there are many people who don't mind a base metal composition (I'm one of them), there are also many people that have disdain for modern base metal non-circulating legal tender coinage.  It's true that the Kennedy Half Dollar is a popular series, there are many collectors of that series that only collect the business strikes and that only collect the silver issues.  The 2019-S Reverse Proof will not appeal to either of these crowds, though it will appeal to collectors who pursue the whole Kennedy series, and there are a lot of those collectors as well.  I also think that, though you seem to indicate that the 2019-S coin has a slightly different appearance than the 2014-W and 2018-S coins, how many collectors are really going to notice that or care about it?  The only unique facet that I feel many collectors will focus on with the 2019-S is the negative one......that it is not a silver coin and that it was a very high priced clad coin.  I think that this decision by the US Mint created some ill will among the collecting community.  I've heard many, many people say that for the $53.95 price tag on the Apollo 11 Half Dollar set, the Kennedy at least should have been silver as that would have made the price much more reasonable.  My opinion, which is shared by several people I've spoken to on this issue, is that both coins should have been silver and both coins should have been reverse proofs.  Then the set would definitely have been a winner.  But that didn't happen, as we know.  However, it's hard to say how bad this will hurt the coin in the long run.  I've been wrong before, but I don't think the future for this particular coin is as bright as some other issues, like the 1998-S Matte Finish.  The 1998-S Matte Finish has two things going for it that the 2019-S Reverse Proof does not: namely it is still unique and it's silver, but even the 1998-S Matte has seen some downward pricing in recent years.  The 1998-S Matte also has a lower mintage than the 2019-S (62,000 vs. 100,000) and, as far as I know, it didn't have the collector ill will about the pricing of it out of the gate.  It also appeals to the silver-only Kennedy crowd, which the 2019-S Reverse Proof does not, so I'd say demand for the 1998-S Matte is likely higher as well.  I guess we'll just have to wait and see about this coin.

Yup, time will be the ultimate test.  Agreed though, a Silver Half, could have easily been made while still charging the same amount and it certainly would have enhanced its long term appeal.

[Mohawk]

30 minutes ago, Mokiechan said:

Yup, time will be the ultimate test.  Agreed though, a Silver Half, could have easily been made while still charging the same amount and it certainly would have enhanced its long term appeal.

Agreed.  The clad composition of both coins at such a high price was the big screw up by the US Mint on this one.  I think that they easily could have made at least the Kennedy Half in .999 silver and kept the price for the set exactly where it was, and collectors would have been happier to pay that price if they knew that they were getting at least one silver coin for their money.  I still think two silver coins would have been better, though.  Or, if both coins were to be clad, sell the set for a lower price.  Those would have been better solutions here, but who knows what's going on with the US Mint these days?  I cannot fathom how some of this stuff sounds good to the people in charge........that 5 ounce curved "dollar" monstrosity is absolutely ridiculous!

[Mokiechan]

10 hours ago, Mohawk said:

Agreed.  The clad composition of both coins at such a high price was the big screw up by the US Mint on this one.  I think that they easily could have made at least the Kennedy Half in .999 silver and kept the price for the set exactly where it was, and collectors would have been happier to pay that price if they knew that they were getting at least one silver coin for their money.  I still think two silver coins would have been better, though.  Or, if both coins were to be clad, sell the set for a lower price.  Those would have been better solutions here, but who knows what's going on with the US Mint these days?  I cannot fathom how some of this stuff sounds good to the people in charge........that 5 ounce curved "dollar" monstrosity is absolutely ridiculous!

Plus the fact that all the Apollo 11 issues share the same design, makes little sense to me.  I do have an acquaintance who is on the CCAC, he went to Florida for the intro ceremony of the coins and brought examples of each to our club meeting.  His touting of the Kennedy Half made me pull the trigger.