Your Opinion: 10 Dollar Indian 1911

[Feeverte]

Hey guys,

I know that it is difficult to grade a coin by photos, but what is your opinion about this one? Its price was 750 dollars and I am not sure if I should take the coin or sent it back to the dealer.

Greetings from Europe

Alex

[MarkFeld]

Welcome to the forum.

You should be able to obtain an NGC or PCGS MS62 for about the same price. Unless you’re highly 

proficient in grading, why chance it?

[numisport]

Image shows nice unc coin just dripping luster all over the table. Beware of problems that may be hidden. Better off with certified coin.

Looks like rim damage at 12:00

[Matt_dac]

I would not personally ever buy raw gold (again). There are some who can, but not me.

I did once and it was returned ‘improperly cleaned’.

You are much better off to buy graded to know what you’re really getting as well as a basis to determine a fair price.

[Numismatic, A.A.S.]

Looks like it is alright. Benefits of grading and encapsulated plastic are many...Safety so no damage to the coin, youth and friends can drop it accidentally and it will happen...grading companies solve alot of problems...insurance and other things can happen easily also then....cool coin...

P.S. I know alot of U.S. Coins are starting to be encapsulated in Europe, I know many of the Foreign Coins remain Raw.  Be sure to judge for yourself if it's worth getting graded or not, a coin that nice with Luster I probably would...eventually when the Cycle Nature of Humans on Earth comes around many years from now, people will want raw again for some unseen reason but we will all be gone when that time comes...Go with NGC, I respect their overall consistency in grading and coins.

[Feeverte]

Okay, thank you! But which grade would you give to it? In Europe most coins are raw, so this is not a hint for hidden problems. 

[Just Bob]

8 minutes ago, Feeverte said:

Okay, thank you! But which grade would you give to it? In Europe most coins are raw, so this is not a hint for hidden problems. 

I don't have a lot of experience grading gold, so I am assuming that what I see on the high spots is contact, and not rub. I think Mark Feld  nailed it: MS62.

[Mohawk]

On 2/18/2019 at 1:57 PM, Just Bob said:

I don't have a lot of experience grading gold, so I am assuming that what I see on the high spots is contact, and not rub. I think Mark Feld  nailed it: MS62.

I have nearly no experience grading US gold myself, but Mark is someone with a lot of valuable experience.  If he said MS62, I'd trust him on it.

[MarkFeld]

2 hours ago, Just Bob said:

I don't have a lot of experience grading gold, so I am assuming that what I see on the high spots is contact, and not rub. I think Mark Feld  nailed it: MS62.

I didn’t mean to imply that I graded the coin 62 - merely that an NGC or PCGS 62 could be bought for about the same price. If I had to assign a grade, I would guess 63 or 63+.  However, it could have problems that preclude such a grade and/or warrant a details grade, instead. I’m not much of a risk taker and would avoid it at the price which was mentioned, even though there could be nice upside.

[Mohawk]

Ahh....I apologize Mark.  I should have read the thread closer.  But you make a good point.....there could definitely be a problem lurking, and with a coin of that price point it is better to buy one already certified. 

[MarkFeld]

32 minutes ago, Mohawk said:

Ahh....I apologize Mark.  I should have read the thread closer.  But you make a good point.....there could definitely be a problem lurking, and with a coin of that price point it is better to buy one already certified. 

Please, no need to apologize - I can easily see how you reached that conclusion.

[Just Bob]

54 minutes ago, MarkFeld said:

I didn’t mean to imply that I graded the coin 62 - merely that an NGC or PCGS 62 could be bought for about the same price. If I had to assign a grade, I would guess 63 or 63+.  However, it could have problems that preclude such a grade and/or warrant a details grade, instead. I’m not much of a risk taker and would avoid it at the price which was mentioned, even though there could be nice upside.

Sorry - I didn't mean to misquote you.

[MarkFeld]

1 hour ago, Just Bob said:

Sorry - I didn't mean to misquote you.

Hi guys need to quit apologizing, but thank you.

[Feeverte]

Hey Guys,

the point is that there are almost no ''serious'' offers for gradet coins in Europe. Most Dealers want to use the slab to sell a MS 61 or MS 62 ,,average'' piece for a very high price. I bought this one from a dealer I made good experiences with. He is the ''one man numismatic departure'' of a large german buillon trader. So neither the rawness, nor the price are as suspicious as it would be in the US. On Top of that the 1911 Indian in one of the most frequent years.

Concerning the Rim you are right. It has a small dammage. Would this already give a details grade or just a 61/62? Are there any hints for hidden defects on my realstic pictures? Is there a large risk for a fake coin? Thank you very much guys!

[MarkFeld]

4 hours ago, Feeverte said:

Hey Guys,

the point is that there are almost no ''serious'' offers for gradet coins in Europe. Most Dealers want to use the slab to sell a MS 61 or MS 62 ,,average'' piece for a very high price. I bought this one from a dealer I made good experiences with. He is the ''one man numismatic departure'' of a large german buillon trader. So neither the rawness, nor the price are as suspicious as it would be in the US. On Top of that the 1911 Indian in one of the most frequent years.

Concerning the Rim you are right. It has a small dammage. Would this already give a details grade or just a 61/62? Are there any hints for hidden defects on my realstic pictures? Is there a large risk for a fake coin? Thank you very much guys!

While I can't guarantee it, the coin looks genuine to me. 

Melt value is currently close to $650, so the downside is not huge.

I think there's a decent chance that the coin would receive an uncirculated, details grade.

As to hints of hidden defects - I don't see them, but if they're hidden, I wouldn't expect to. 

[Matt_dac]

I’d also take care not to touch the surfaces with your fingers (sides only).

 

[Coinbuf]

As Mr Feld said the price you've indicated is close to melt value so little downside risk financially.  My best guess on grade is unc details due to the rim marks, it's a fine looking coin with nice details and luster just lots of small rim nicks and hits.  If you have had other transactions with this seller and your comfortable with his assessment of the coin then I think you will be fine.

[Mohawk]

I think the rim marks would result in a details grade myself.  I've seen that happen with similar marks on Canadian and US Peace silver dollars in my time, so I can't imagine it would be any different for your gold piece.  However, as the others have said, you got into the coin for close to melt value, so you're not going to be in bad shape on this one regarding the price paid and the value of the coin.

[rrantique]

I like this one at MS62.

[Feeverte]

Thank you for the many helpful answers. Because of the Rim Issue I sent back the coin to seller.