Chinese auction fakes
1 1

7 posts in this topic

188 posts

I posted about this yesterday.  But I accidentally put it in Coin Marketplace.  Not sure if everyone goes there.  I have something to add to the discussion today, which I think is good news. So I thought I would start a new thread in the right place.

Basically I stumbled on an online auction from an auction house in China, with what I think are 300+ fakes.  This is the second time I have seen something like this.  The first time I emailed the host site, (auctionzip) but no one ever got back to me.  Hundreds sold.  Some for a lot of money.  This time I emailed liveauctioneers, they did get back to me and say they have put an investigator on it.

I pointed out a dozen or so that (even with my limited knowledge) I was able to confirm.  Many that had the front of a seated liberty and the back of a Morgan.  CC mint marks with dates before Carson City opened.  The auction is in 5 hours.  I'm not holding my breath that their investigation will be done by then.

I wouldn't care so much if people were bidding $20, thinking these were some sort of silver round.  But I see many bids for $200 or $300.  Even on some of the more obvious fakes.

The good news is the bids really dropped off as I scrolled through.  Especially after the first 40 or 50.  By the time I got to page 3, with 80 some coins, only 2 had bid on them.  Now if these coins had been real, they were just as valuable as the first 50.  In a normal auction with 5 hours to go, they would have just as many bids.

I know when I stumbled on the first batch months ago, I was initially excited.  Even saved a few to my watch list.  But as I scrolled through I got more and more leery.  There were many different types of dollars, from different time periods, different mints, foreign coins and even a few non coin tokens and medals.  Yet they all had extremely similar toning and wear.  Some had wear through the toning that didn't look natural.  Too crisp.  Some even looked like the toning had been applied with a paint brush.

I'm sure that's what happened here.  People were initially excited, threw in a bid on something they really wanted.  Then slowly realized something wasn't right.  Hopefully that means only  50 will sell rather than 300+.  And hopefully people highly scrutinize any coins they do win, and complain to liveauctioneers.

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/catalog/134776_morgan-silver-coin-collection/

They also have several nice Rolexes, if anyone is in the market for one of those.  Just don't complain to me if your wrist turns green.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,563 posts

I wonder how legitimate coin dealers in China, assuming that there are any left, react when they see this kind of garbage. The fakers are counterfeiting coins of many countries, including their own, so it must be hard to convince a potential buyer that you can be trusted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
188 posts
13 hours ago, Mk123 said:

Particularly one of the reasons I stick with graded coins like NGC! There is a particular coin that is highly counterfeited (thai) that I won't even buy raw now!

That is certainly safer.  But sometimes I enjoy the excitement of taking a risk.  Especially if I get the coin cheap enough and that risk comes with a reward.  Sure I've been burned a few times.  But my successes way outnumber my failures.  

My biggest success, 78 8TF Morgan that I got for $35.  Sent in for grading and it came back a MS63.

Biggest failure.  $30 on group of what I thought were Chinese dollars.  They were in a plastic holder.  When I got to see it first hand, I realized it had been designed to hang on a display rack.  Probably something somebody picked up at a Chinese souvenir shop.  I found out from a thread on here that China doesn't require replicas to be marked.  Lesson learned.

Sure there are a lot of lousy companies on these auction hosting sites.  But I have also found a handful of good ones.  Much like Ebay, it's all about the ratings.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12,846 posts
2 hours ago, Lancek said:

That is certainly safer.  But sometimes I enjoy the excitement of taking a risk.  Especially if I get the coin cheap enough and that risk comes with a reward.  Sure I've been burned a few times.  But my successes way outnumber my failures.  

My biggest success, 78 8TF Morgan that I got for $35.  Sent in for grading and it came back a MS63.

Biggest failure.  $30 on group of what I thought were Chinese dollars.  They were in a plastic holder.  When I got to see it first hand, I realized it had been designed to hang on a display rack.  Probably something somebody picked up at a Chinese souvenir shop.  I found out from a thread on here that China doesn't require replicas to be marked.  Lesson learned.

Sure there are a lot of lousy companies on these auction hosting sites.  But I have also found a handful of good ones.  Much like Ebay, it's all about the ratings.  

Regarding Ebay and ratings - 

I’ve seen numerous terrible sellers on Ebay with very high ratings. I think that’s because most of the buyers of their material don’t know better and the sellers accept returns form the few buyers who realize they’ve bought copies or badly over-graded coins.

 

Edited by MarkFeld

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
78 posts

I come across fakes all the time they are everywhere sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you don’t. I still buy raw regardless as that’s where u find the gems. Plus believe it or not plenty of people will pay for fakes/restrikes/copies, as coin fillers because not all collectors can afford the real deal. 

 

When I find a fake in a bulk buy I will relist it as a reproduction coin state clearly it’s not the real deal and put a £6 price tag on it. People still buy and I recovery some of the loss. 

Good work on sniping out those forgeries thou respect 👍

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
188 posts
1 hour ago, MarkFeld said:

Regarding Ebay and ratings - 

I’ve seen numerous terrible sellers on Ebay with very high ratings. I think that’s because most of the buyers of their material don’t know better and the sellers accept returns form the few buyers who realize they’ve bought copies or badly over-graded coins.

 

Ok, maybe "all" was too strong of a word.  But in my buying decision, ratings and reviews are a factor.  I'm not going to buy simply because someone has great ratings or reviews.  But I am likely to not buy if they have bad ones.  Or are a new seller with only a few reviews.  I might buy graded coins from them.  As long as it was from one of the big three.  But I wouldn't buy raw.

That's one of the reasons I've gotten a lot of my coins graded.  If I ever do sell on Ebay, I want to establish my creds with verified coins first.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
1 1