physics-fan3.14 14,856 posts Report post Posted January 5, 2019 Some of you have seen this coin before. Some of you may have seen this coin in person, when I bought it at the 2016 FUN show. I arrived at the show Friday morning, and I went straight to Rick Snow's table. I had recently purchased my PL Flying Eagle cent, and I wanted to confirm the variety with him (and make sure it wasn't a proof). He was helpful, told me it was definitely not a proof, and complimented my coin. We got to talking, and I told him about the type set I was building (a prooflike Type Set). Well, he showed me this coin. It was gorgeous. Rick had given it his "Eagle Eye" seal of approval, and told me that this coin came from Q D Bower's personal collection. I knew instantly that I wanted it. But I hesitated. It was in PCGS plastic, which meant that it did not have a PL designation. Rick was understanding - my entire collection is in NGC plastic, and I play on the NGC Registry. It was also a very large amount of money. If I bought that coin, I'd be done not only for that show but for the next couple of months. Well, I brought a friend over to look at the coin, and he laid one simple piece of advice on me that I've never forgotten: "If you don't buy that coin, will you regret it?"I've realized over the years that there have been a couple of coins that "got away," and I always regretted not buying them. Not taking the chance, not putting it all on the line. I actually went, got a hot dog, and thought about his advice while I ate the hot dog. I pondered the coin, the price, the opportunity, the coin, how beautiful the coin was, the price.... I went back and forth. But then I realized... If I didn't buy it, this is a coin that I would think about for years and wish that I had. So I bought it. The rest of the show was spent pleasantly wandering the aisles, just looking, listening, talking, and chatting. It was one of the best shows I ever went to, and I had spent my entire budget in the first hour of a 3 day trip. Anyways, I get the coin home and I knew that I had to cross it to NGC for the PL designation. It was graded by PCGS as 65 RD, and I knew the grade was solid. Turns out, NGC agreed - they actually thought it was premium, and graded it 65+ RD. But no PL? What? There must be some mistake. I sat on the coin, and waited to resubmit. I recently sent it in for designation review, and finally got the grade back today: MS-65+ RD PL. The highest graded Indian Prooflike in the series! This makes the 5th graded PL known in the Indian cent series. There was absolutely no question in my mind when I bought this coin that it was everything I thought it was, but it is still nice to have the TPG agree. Man, I'm so excited right now! 10 PocketArt, USAuPzlBxBob, Walkerfan and 7 others reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bsshog40 17,075 posts Report post Posted January 5, 2019 That's awesome Jason. Can't imagine why is wasn't originally graded PL. Congrats on it now though!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jade Collection 358 posts Report post Posted January 5, 2019 I didn't even know there was a PL indian cent! Congrats, I really love PL coins, I may start up a set myself!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Numismatic, A.A.S. 512 posts Report post Posted January 5, 2019 That's a great coin...Congrats!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Walkerfan 4,953 posts Report post Posted January 5, 2019 What a great story! You were right to buy the coin. It is beautiful and you would have certainly regretted not purchasing it. I'd rather blow my entire budget on one big-ticket, special coin rather than many, more common examples. Glad that you were persistent and finally got the desired result and a top pop to boot. Congratulations! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
coinsandmedals 603 posts Report post Posted January 5, 2019 Wow that is an exceptional coin. I can only imagine what it looks like in hand. Thanks for taking the time share! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MarkFeld 12,848 posts Report post Posted January 5, 2019 Jason, your post was a pleasure to read and I’m truly excited for you. There are a number of important points to your experience. Among them: Knowledge is key; know when to pass on a coin you can live without and when to take the plunge with one that you can’t live without; you don’t need to buy a lot of coins to have a great show; when you have a really important decision to make, do it while eating a hotdog.😉 1 USAuPzlBxBob reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robec1347 4,756 posts Report post Posted January 5, 2019 Congratulations Jason. I can understand how those results can make you feel on top of the world. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Just Bob 4,582 posts Report post Posted January 5, 2019 Well done, Jason! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MorganMan 1,241 posts Report post Posted January 6, 2019 Even the grading services miss sometimes. I had a gold Indian 5 dollar that I sent in and it came back cleaned. I took the coin, looked it over very closely, and could not figure out why it came back as cleaned. Sat on it for 6 months, resubmitted, and came back MS63! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
numisport 887 posts Report post Posted January 6, 2019 Great story and you sure have good taste ! If you haven't already done so I think you should let them know ATS that there advantages to owning NGC graded coins considering PL designation, Star designation and also the fact that PCGS doesn't grade proof coppers cameo unless they are full red; I'm sure there are more reasons though just to name a few. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MarkFeld 12,848 posts Report post Posted January 6, 2019 9 minutes ago, numisport said: Great story and you sure have good taste ! If you haven't already done so I think you should let them know ATS that there advantages to owning NGC graded coins considering PL designation, Star designation and also the fact that PCGS doesn't grade proof coppers cameo unless they are full red; I'm sure there are more reasons though just to name a few. I think that if Jason does as you suggested, he would be in violation of the PCGS forum rules. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
numisport 887 posts Report post Posted January 6, 2019 34 minutes ago, MarkFeld said: I think that if Jason does as you suggested, he would be in violation of the PCGS forum rules. I do post there occasionally but it's unclear what rules would be violated when merely identifying these types of coins that PCGS will not designate accordingly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
physics-fan3.14 14,856 posts Report post Posted January 6, 2019 13 minutes ago, numisport said: I do post there occasionally but it's unclear what rules would be violated when merely identifying these types of coins that PCGS will not designate accordingly. I crossed a PCGS coin into the forbidden NGC plastic. This is tantamount to heresy of the highest order. 4 1 coinsandmedals, Coinbuf, Walkerfan and 2 others reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MarkFeld 12,848 posts Report post Posted January 6, 2019 58 minutes ago, numisport said: I do post there occasionally but it's unclear what rules would be violated when merely identifying these types of coins that PCGS will not designate accordingly. “Posts promoting or bashing other grading companies or services are not allowed.” Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
numisport 887 posts Report post Posted January 6, 2019 52 minutes ago, MarkFeld said: “Posts promoting or bashing other grading companies or services are not allowed.” Any quotes posted on PCGS forum could be misconstrued as bashing their company not another company. Furthermore if PCGS expects to move forward following a restructuring that was long overdue they must listen to public opinion if they expect to maintain a reasonable market share. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MarkFeld 12,848 posts Report post Posted January 6, 2019 18 minutes ago, numisport said: Any quotes posted on PCGS forum could be misconstrued as bashing their company not another company. Furthermore if PCGS expects to move forward following a restructuring that was long overdue they must listen to public opinion if they expect to maintain a reasonable market share. What you had suggested, sounds tantamount to promoting NGC, which is against the PCGS forum rules. Your point about listening to public opinion doesn’t change that.😉 “If you haven't already done so I think you should let them know ATS that there advantages to owning NGC graded coins considering PL designation, Star designation and also the fact that PCGS doesn't grade proof coppers cameo unless they are full red; I'm sure there are more reasons though just to name a few.” Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
numisport 887 posts Report post Posted January 6, 2019 Sorry for hijacking a good thread Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PocketArt 523 posts Report post Posted January 6, 2019 Congrats Jason! Always look forward to your PL quests, and latest discoveries. Hope to build a stunning PL collection as you have someday. It's a work in progress. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bottlebum 57 posts Report post Posted January 7, 2019 Lovely Indian. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
messydesk 1,740 posts Report post Posted January 7, 2019 Wow! What a cool coin! You made the right decision pulling the trigger on that one. Downing a coin show hot dog -- not so much. As for posting a story like this ATS, if you word it as a thinly veiled "PCGS sucks, NGC rules" post, then it won't last long. Why should it? On the other hand, if you present this coin, the FE cent, and a couple others, especially from branch mints (so that someone can't claim a coin is a proof) as a reason that PCGS needs to re-evaluate their stance on only allowing PL designations on MS60 and above Morgan dollars, it would be welcome. The new boss is very interested in hearing constructive comments from collectors, and spent a good deal of time calling and chatting with everyone registered for their lunch at FUN regardless of "industry stature," even me. 1 numisport reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coinbuf 1,385 posts Report post Posted January 7, 2019 On 1/6/2019 at 9:19 AM, physics-fan3.14 said: I crossed a PCGS coin into the forbidden NGC plastic. This is tantamount to heresy of the highest order. I'm sure that everyone ats has told you what a poor decision from a financial standpoint that was lol. Not to derail this thread that is a great looking coin in the op congrats on the grade. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rrantique 8,065 posts Report post Posted January 7, 2019 Way to go Jason. Good move and great coin. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
USAuPzlBxBob 1,171 posts Report post Posted January 11, 2019 On 1/4/2019 at 9:20 PM, physics-fan3.14 said: Some of you have seen this coin before. Some of you may have seen this coin in person, when I bought it at the 2016 FUN show. I arrived at the show Friday morning, and I went straight to Rick Snow's table. I had recently purchased my PL Flying Eagle cent, and I wanted to confirm the variety with him (and make sure it wasn't a proof). He was helpful, told me it was definitely not a proof, and complimented my coin. We got to talking, and I told him about the type set I was building (a prooflike Type Set). Well, he showed me this coin. It was gorgeous. Rick had given it his "Eagle Eye" seal of approval, and told me that this coin came from Q D Bower's personal collection. I knew instantly that I wanted it. But I hesitated. It was in PCGS plastic, which meant that it did not have a PL designation. Rick was understanding - my entire collection is in NGC plastic, and I play on the NGC Registry. It was also a very large amount of money. If I bought that coin, I'd be done not only for that show but for the next couple of months. Well, I brought a friend over to look at the coin, and he laid one simple piece of advice on me that I've never forgotten: "If you don't buy that coin, will you regret it?" I've realized over the years that there have been a couple of coins that "got away," and I always regretted not buying them. Not taking the chance, not putting it all on the line. I actually went, got a hot dog, and thought about his advice while I ate the hot dog. I pondered the coin, the price, the opportunity, the coin, how beautiful the coin was, the price.... I went back and forth. But then I realized... If I didn't buy it, this is a coin that I would think about for years and wish that I had. So I bought it. The rest of the show was spent pleasantly wandering the aisles, just looking, listening, talking, and chatting. It was one of the best shows I ever went to, and I had spent my entire budget in the first hour of a 3 day trip. Anyways, I get the coin home and I knew that I had to cross it to NGC for the PL designation. It was graded by PCGS as 65 RD, and I knew the grade was solid. Turns out, NGC agreed - they actually thought it was premium, and graded it 65+ RD. But no PL? What? There must be some mistake. I sat on the coin, and waited to resubmit. I recently sent it in for designation review, and finally got the grade back today: MS-65+ RD PL. The highest graded Indian Prooflike in the series! This makes the 5th graded PL known in the Indian cent series. There was absolutely no question in my mind when I bought this coin that it was everything I thought it was, but it is still nice to have the TPG agree. Man, I'm so excited right now! Absolutely gorgeous coin. So many things about it… Well written post, too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
USAuPzlBxBob 1,171 posts Report post Posted January 16, 2019 Still love this thread. One of the most amazing threads I've ever read on the NGC Chat Boards. So envious, … lucky I don't collect copper. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
physics-fan3.14 14,856 posts Report post Posted January 17, 2019 On 1/7/2019 at 9:55 AM, messydesk said: Wow! What a cool coin! You made the right decision pulling the trigger on that one. Downing a coin show hot dog -- not so much. As for posting a story like this ATS, if you word it as a thinly veiled "PCGS sucks, NGC rules" post, then it won't last long. Why should it? On the other hand, if you present this coin, the FE cent, and a couple others, especially from branch mints (so that someone can't claim a coin is a proof) as a reason that PCGS needs to re-evaluate their stance on only allowing PL designations on MS60 and above Morgan dollars, it would be welcome. The new boss is very interested in hearing constructive comments from collectors, and spent a good deal of time calling and chatting with everyone registered for their lunch at FUN regardless of "industry stature," even me. Well, I posted the thread: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1012435/an-open-letter-to-pcgs-please-consider-designating-all-us-coins-as-prooflike/p1?new=1 I really hope it goes well. I have a membership there, but I'm not sure I've ever actually posted a thread there (except in the marketplace). If I get the ban-hammer though, I really haven't lost anything 1 coinsandmedals reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Just Bob 4,582 posts Report post Posted January 17, 2019 (edited) That was a well written and thoughtful post. Edit: I was referring to the post ATS, but the adjectives fit your original post here, as well. Edited January 17, 2019 by Just Bob Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
coinsandmedals 603 posts Report post Posted January 17, 2019 I enjoyed reading your post and I firmly agree. The comments ATS seem to be supportive. I am however a little surprised by the comment alluding to the idea that all designations are unneeded. I cannot say I have ever encountered that position before. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
messydesk 1,740 posts Report post Posted January 18, 2019 5 hours ago, coinsandmedals said: ... I am however a little surprised by the comment alluding to the idea that all designations are unneeded. I cannot say I have ever encountered that position before. Given the sheer amount of discussion, something like that was bound to come up sooner or later. 1 rrantique reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtryka 7,394 posts Report post Posted January 20, 2019 What a great story and lesson! Congrats on this one, I'm sure you'll enjoy it for many years to come! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
