Proof VS Business Strike

[Brian K. Briggs]

Does it seem logical and possible to have a Jefferson nickel which is uncirculated, struck with a worn die, and free from marks.  That grades as a MS 68?

[Just Bob]

It seems both logical and possible. An uncirculated coin, fully struck and completely mark free, would grade MS70. A few barely perceptible marks, coupled with a worn die,  would make a grade of MS68 quite plausible. (I personally don't think that a worn die or even a weak strike should effect the grade. I believe the grade should be based on surface preservation, and other factors  should be considered - and listed - separately. )

Not really sure what this has to do with " Proof vs Business Strike"' though. 

[Numismatic, A.A.S.]

Yes, but how are the details on the coin...strong, weak...in technical terms it doesn't apply but I've seen high grade SLQ's higher grade but with no full head and rivets...same with Franklin's bell lines and Full Torch bands on roosies, full bands on mercs...high grade coin but lacking g specific details...not sure if I'd want a high grade coin without great, well struck details...just personal preference. I would if other attributes were there...color or blast white, errors, census rarity or mintage rarity, then yes... some will say a coin is over graded without strong details..and the luster issue, many coins have to have "flash" to hit a 67 grade...just my opinion..

[Brian K. Briggs]

Hello Numismatic, A.A.S. 

I was referring to the Jefferson Nickels, and in particular the last one which sold for a little over $15.000 thousand dollars. It was a MS67 Jefferson Nickel (1964). With a FS designation. That got my attention because I have a 1964 Jefferson with FS and it is uncirculated. And I think it could be a finer example. Lets hope NGC agrees.

[tejas1836]

Good luck with your submission, but be aware your going against some really steep odds. NGC has graded only 16 MS67 1964 Jefferson nickels of which only 5 were FS.  I didn't check the PCGS census, but there hasn't been an MS68 or higher graded at NGC for the coin you have.

[Brian K. Briggs]

[coinman1794]

On 12/7/2018 at 4:24 PM, Brian K. Briggs said:

Does it seem logical and possible to have a Jefferson nickel which is uncirculated, struck with a worn die, and free from marks.  That grades as a MS 68?

Typically, the coins struck from later die states have more pronounced, frosty luster that drowns out imperfections. This causes them to grade higher than early and middle die states that otherwise show the same marks.

[Numismatic, A.A.S.]

On 12/8/2018 at 12:05 PM, Brian K. Briggs said:

Hello Numismatic, A.A.S. 

I was referring to the Jefferson Nickels, and in particular the last one which sold for a little over $15.000 thousand dollars. It was a MS67 Jefferson Nickel (1964). With a FS designation. That got my attention because I have a 1964 Jefferson with FS and it is uncirculated. And I think it could be a finer example. Lets hope NGC agrees.

It very well could be...I understand your comment, I was just adding my thoughts in general....remember, as others here are welcome to add to and/or correct me...years ago NGC changed the amount of steps 6 to 5 vs. PCGS FS count...of full 6 steps...this is an area I must go back and check in my notebooks archival to be able to accurately advise you...that being said...how do your steps look, what is the count...are any wavy looking...just taking it a bit deeper for conversation purposes...I'm sure someone remembers exactly how the step qualifications go...including across the street...peace 

[Just Bob]

1 hour ago, Numismatic, A.A.S. said:

.years ago NGC changed the amount of steps 6 to 5 vs. PCGS FS count...of full 6 steps.

From the PCGS website:

 Full Steps (FS) is the designation following the numerical grade of some regular-strike MS60 or higher Jefferson nickels that have at least five separated steps (lines) at the base of Monticello. 

From the NGC site:

Since 2004, NGC has used the 5-Full Steps (5FS) and 6-Full Steps (6FS) designations for qualifying Jefferson Nickel

[Numismatic, A.A.S.]

8 hours ago, Just Bob said:

From the PCGS website:

 Full Steps (FS) is the designation following the numerical grade of some regular-strike MS60 or higher Jefferson nickels that have at least five separated steps (lines) at the base of Monticello. 

From the NGC site:

Since 2004, NGC has used the 5-Full Steps (5FS) and 6-Full Steps (6FS) designations for qualifying Jefferson Nickel

Thank you Just Bob...

[Numismatic, A.A.S.]

On 12/10/2018 at 11:37 PM, Just Bob said:

From the PCGS website:

 Full Steps (FS) is the designation following the numerical grade of some regular-strike MS60 or higher Jefferson nickels that have at least five separated steps (lines) at the base of Monticello. 

From the NGC site:

Since 2004, NGC has used the 5-Full Steps (5FS) and 6-Full Steps (6FS) designations for qualifying Jefferson Nickel

Had a chance to look at my submission stuff and I noted that before 2003 at NGC I had to have all 6 steps for FS, so that's when they changed it...peace

[Six Mile Rick]

I think you are correct on the earlier old slab NGC nickels. There are many old holder slabs still with MS67 or so that will now get the 5FS designation and value bump if you are lucky enough to find them.

[Numismatic, A.A.S.]

Looks like I may have to go safe digging...this I forgot about...