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Downgrade service question

Started by toyonakataro,

17 posts in this topic

toyonakataro

toyonakataro

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If you send a coin to NGC for dawngrade and NGC agree with you, do they send you back the coin in a new slab with different certificate number?

Or do they send you back the coin in a new slab and new grade with the same certificate number?

 

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

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I don't know if the cert number changes or not - that's a good question for NGC. However, my understanding is that if NGC decides to downgrade the coin, they will come up with a cash offer to compensate you for the difference in value between the old grade and the new one. 

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toyonakataro

toyonakataro

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I just wanted to know because I'm seeing a certain coin graded AU50 by NGC from upcoming Heritage auction. And looking up their auction archive,I can see exactly the same coin graded AU58 by NGC with different certification number. I was just curious if the owner of this coin used downgrade service or he just craked out the holder for upgrade and unfortunatelly got downgraded.

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Morpheus1967

Morpheus1967

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I know if you strictly reholder the coin it keeps the same cert number.  Not sure how it would go if the grade changed.

 

But this is something I brought up with NGC.  I sent 2 coins in for re-slabbing.  They kept the same cert numbers.  However, when I looked up the cert number based on my the invoice number, it ALSO brought up the coin, albeit this time with no photo.  Seems like a glitch to me.  The same coin, two different legit numbers.  Example:

I sent the coin in with cert # 503086-069.  I sent it in to be re-slabbed.  Invoice number generated was  4689333-001.  If I look up both numbers, the same coin comes up.  Only the first one has the photo.  I sent NGC an email explaining how dangerous this could be, having two legitimate cert numbers for the same coin, especially with no photo for comparison.  Never heard back. And I just looked.  Both numbers are still good in the database, and this was in February.  

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toyonakataro

toyonakataro

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14 hours ago, Six Mile Rick said:

I sent in a graded coin for preservation. NGC downgraded it and it got a new serial number.

Did NGC downgrade your coin when you just wanted to reholder the slab?

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Six Mile Rick

Six Mile Rick

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No --- I sent it in for preservation to get the mint package must off the coin. Obviously it must have been hiding a little die ware which lowered the grade when it was preserved. There was no mention from them of making the grade value difference adjustment but I was happy with having the correct grade attributed to the new better clean look.

 They did a fantastic job!!!

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Numismatic, A.A.S.

Numismatic, A.A.S.

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On 11/19/2018 at 7:11 AM, MarkFeld said:

I don't know if the cert number changes or not - that's a good question for NGC. However, my understanding is that if NGC decides to downgrade the coin, they will come up with a cash offer to compensate you for the difference in value between the old grade and the new one. 

This.

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coinman1794

coinman1794

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On 11/19/2018 at 2:51 PM, Morpheus1967 said:

I know if you strictly reholder the coin it keeps the same cert number.  Not sure how it would go if the grade changed.

 

But this is something I brought up with NGC.  I sent 2 coins in for re-slabbing.  They kept the same cert numbers.  However, when I looked up the cert number based on my the invoice number, it ALSO brought up the coin, albeit this time with no photo.  Seems like a glitch to me.  The same coin, two different legit numbers.  Example:

I sent the coin in with cert # 503086-069.  I sent it in to be re-slabbed.  Invoice number generated was  4689333-001.  If I look up both numbers, the same coin comes up.  Only the first one has the photo.  I sent NGC an email explaining how dangerous this could be, having two legitimate cert numbers for the same coin, especially with no photo for comparison.  Never heard back. And I just looked.  Both numbers are still good in the database, and this was in February.  

Only NGC can answer the original question precisely. But to address your point; any time a coin is sent back, that item becomes searchable in the database with its newest invoice number, even if that number does not appear on the slab. I guess that number is still unique to the coin, technically.

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Morpheus1967

Morpheus1967

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4 hours ago, coinman1794 said:

Only NGC can answer the original question precisely. But to address your point; any time a coin is sent back, that item becomes searchable in the database with its newest invoice number, even if that number does not appear on the slab. I guess that number is still unique to the coin, technically.

Unique to the coin, yes.  But there is no photo of the coin with the new cert number.  With counterfeiter's getting more savvy all the time, this seems like a loophole they might want to address.  What's to keep someone from sending in a high value coin for re-slabbing.  The original coin is legit.  Now they have the original cert number, and the new one that they submitted under.  Stick a fake coin in a fake slab with the new cert number and voila.  You have a completely fake coin that comes up as legitimate when you search the database.  But alas, there is not photo of the coin for you to compare it to.

 

Seems like there has to be a pretty easy fix to this by purging either the old or the new number from the database.  They do it with old labels that are sent in.  

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numisport

numisport

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On ‎11‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 7:01 AM, Morpheus1967 said:

Why would you not get your coin back?

 

You will get your coin back maybe not in its original holder

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numisport

numisport

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I sent in a group for reholder and one (after agreement by phone call) was downgraded from red to red brown and kept same cert #. NGC image was replaced to reflect change.

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toyonakataro

toyonakataro

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9 hours ago, numisport said:

I sent in a group for reholder and one (after agreement by phone call) was downgraded from red to red brown and kept same cert #. NGC image was replaced to reflect change.

Interesting. So I assume they use the same certification# when they downgrade a coin. Otherwise, they should abolish the old certification# from their database to avoid the confusion.

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numisport

numisport

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13 hours ago, toyonakataro said:

Interesting. So I assume they use the same certification# when they downgrade a coin. Otherwise, they should abolish the old certification# from their database to avoid the confusion.

I'm sure that a downgrade will get a new certification # but change in designation kept same cert. # for me

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Conder101

Conder101

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On 11/19/2018 at 7:11 AM, MarkFeld said:

they will come up with a cash offer to compensate you for the difference in value between the old grade and the new one. 

Or they may replace the coin.  The option on which they will do is up to them.

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