What's Your CAC Gold Sticker Worth?
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Here is a standard 1957-D Washington Quarter in NGC 66.

A run of the mill 66 is less than $50.

Add in nice color, old holder, and a gold gold CAC sticker, the price skyrockets up to $590.62 with the juice.

GC%201957Wash%20Qtr%20MS66%20gold%20CAC%

 

Edited by leeg

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So, someone feels this coin is worth 67+ money. I wonder if they bought it to try for an upgrade, or cross to PCGS. If it gets in a 68 holder, its value price goes up 3 or 4 times more.

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40 minutes ago, Just Bob said:

So, someone feels this coin is worth 67+ money. I wonder if they bought it to try for an upgrade, or cross to PCGS. If it gets in a 68 holder, its value price goes up 3 or 4 times more.

That seems a little risky at best. Sure the price (I like what you did there by crossing out value) jumps dramatically from 67 to 68, but it seems risky to pay a hefty premium upfront and then gamble on getting a 67+ and not a straight 67. I personally would have never paid such a large premium for this coin.

I suppose it could also be the case that the buyer is collecting the combination of old holders, gold beans, and toned coins of that particular series. I would imagine that combination could be difficult to find and thus it may have justified the premium in their eyes. It seems odd to collect the plastic and sticker, but I know several who do exactly that. 

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My observation is that many/most of the gold CACS are on the old NGC and old PCGS holders, such as the one shown by the OP.

Here's one of mine.  

ro_obv.JPG

ro_rev.JPG

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47 minutes ago, JIM F. said:

My observation is that many/most of the gold CACS are on the old NGC and old PCGS holders, such as the one shown by the OP.

Here's one of mine.  

I have noticed that as well. I think that is just one of the many factors perpetuating the idea that coins in older holders were graded with more conservative standards. Nice coin!

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On 10/29/2018 at 6:44 AM, leeg said:

Here is a standard 1957-D Washington Quarter in NGC 66.

A run of the mill 66 is less than $50.

Add in nice color, old holder, and a gold gold CAC sticker, the price skyrockets up to $590.62 with the juice.

GC%201957Wash%20Qtr%20MS66%20gold%20CAC%

 

NGC price guide is $315 in MS67. Add great color and an older, collectible slab, and $500+ is not unreasonable. The Gold stickers are typically traded at the next highest grade, or higher, without the need to actually have it regraded higher. In most cases, the Gold sticker is more desirable than a coin certified to the next grade. Therefore the buyer did not technically take any risk. Is all this right, correct, just, and fair. Probably not, but that is the market on Gold stickers. Would I pay that much extra based only on a sticker? No, but if the coin is truly under-graded, I would.

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It all must have been ok for the buyer.  Just too rich for my blood.

Edited by leeg

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Keep in mind, a gold sticker indicates it should be worthy of 1 or more higher grade.  And, keep in mind, the older slabs these are often found on, are before the TPGs had the * and + grades.

Edited by JIM F.

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Has anyone else noticed that quite a few coin dealers sell their CAC Gold coins for the next grade up.

That means a collector is stuck with the coin.  No?

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The coin is unique.  The eye appeal is better than most Washingtons that I've seen even in premium gem or higher.  I think that coin would certainly get a star for color, nowadays.  The gold sticker and the gold foil no line fatty are other culminating factors.

Edited by Walkerfan

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2 hours ago, leeg said:

Has anyone else noticed that quite a few coin dealers sell their CAC Gold coins for the next grade up.

That means a collector is stuck with the coin.  No?

If that's what the market will yield why wouldn't a dealer sell it there?  I don't expect dealers to leave money on the table unless it's for a special or favorite customer; and even then I suspect the dealer hopes to make it back in the future.

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10 hours ago, leeg said:

Has anyone else noticed that quite a few coin dealers sell their CAC Gold coins for the next grade up.

That means a collector is stuck with the coin.  No?

Not necessarily. Quite a few collectors sell theirs at the next grade up, too. As long as gold-stickered coins continue to bring prices that are equivalent to the next grade higher, the buyers wont be stuck. As you know, collectors can get buried in coins that aren't gold-stickered, too. 

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I can give a real world example of what a gold CAC sticker might be worth.  

There are only 17 gold CAC stickers for the entire Barber half dollar series and I submitted two of those coins (the only AU58 and the only MS66 gold CAC stickers).  Until recently, the MS66 gold sticker coin was not only the single MS66 example with a gold sticker for the type, but it was also the highest graded gold CAC sticker awarded to the series.  I paid nearly double the present PCGS Coin Facts price for my MS66 in its OGH shortly before the establishment of CAC and I thought the coin was great.  I then brought it to one of the Baltimore shows as a kind of one-coin show-and-tell (it is rare for me to do that) and several high profile, incredibly well-known dealers also apparently loved the coin and each asked what I paid.  I told them and every single dealer, save for one, told me I paid too much.  The coin was then sent to CAC, received a gold sticker and I decided to do a little test and walked it around the floor at the next Baltimore show and showed it to each of those dealers who had seen it previously.  In every case, the dealer who told me I paid too much for the coin as an OGH MS66 at near double the present PCGS Coin Facts price told me they would pay me near current PCGS MS67+ money.  That is an enormous percentage and absolute dollar increase.

Oh yes, the dealer who didn't think I paid too much for it initially offered me PCGS Coin Facts MS67+ money for the coin prior to its CAC submission.

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51 minutes ago, TomB said:

I can give a real world example of what a gold CAC sticker might be worth.  

There are only 17 gold CAC stickers for the entire Barber half dollar series and I submitted two of those coins (the only AU58 and the only MS66 gold CAC stickers).  Until recently, the MS66 gold sticker coin was not only the single MS66 example with a gold sticker for the type, but it was also the highest graded gold CAC sticker awarded to the series.  I paid nearly double the present PCGS Coin Facts price for my MS66 in its OGH shortly before the establishment of CAC and I thought the coin was great.  I then brought it to one of the Baltimore shows as a kind of one-coin show-and-tell (it is rare for me to do that) and several high profile, incredibly well-known dealers also apparently loved the coin and each asked what I paid.  I told them and every single dealer, save for one, told me I paid too much.  The coin was then sent to CAC, received a gold sticker and I decided to do a little test and walked it around the floor at the next Baltimore show and showed it to each of those dealers who had seen it previously.  In every case, the dealer who told me I paid too much for the coin as an OGH MS66 at near double the present PCGS Coin Facts price told me they would pay me near current PCGS MS67+ money.  That is an enormous percentage and absolute dollar increase.

Oh yes, the dealer who didn't think I paid too much for it initially offered me PCGS Coin Facts MS67+ money for the coin prior to its CAC submission.

Is this MS-66 gold CAC coin an 1892-micro O?  C'mon don't hold back!  Having said that, do you care to post pics of it?

 

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1 hour ago, TomB said:

I can give a real world example of what a gold CAC sticker might be worth.  

There are only 17 gold CAC stickers for the entire Barber half dollar series and I submitted two of those coins (the only AU58 and the only MS66 gold CAC stickers).  Until recently, the MS66 gold sticker coin was not only the single MS66 example with a gold sticker for the type, but it was also the highest graded gold CAC sticker awarded to the series.  I paid nearly double the present PCGS Coin Facts price for my MS66 in its OGH shortly before the establishment of CAC and I thought the coin was great.  I then brought it to one of the Baltimore shows as a kind of one-coin show-and-tell (it is rare for me to do that) and several high profile, incredibly well-known dealers also apparently loved the coin and each asked what I paid.  I told them and every single dealer, save for one, told me I paid too much.  The coin was then sent to CAC, received a gold sticker and I decided to do a little test and walked it around the floor at the next Baltimore show and showed it to each of those dealers who had seen it previously.  In every case, the dealer who told me I paid too much for the coin as an OGH MS66 at near double the present PCGS Coin Facts price told me they would pay me near current PCGS MS67+ money.  That is an enormous percentage and absolute dollar increase.

Oh yes, the dealer who didn't think I paid too much for it initially offered me PCGS Coin Facts MS67+ money for the coin prior to its CAC submission.

Tom, it’s good to see you post. Curiously, if you happen to remember, how did the price you paid for the MS66 coin compare to MS67 prices at the time? 

 

Edited by MarkFeld

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As I'm not a follower of CAC coins, both look very nice to me! I have one coin in my collection that is CAC'd but it's a greenie. Lol 

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3 hours ago, TomB said:

Howdy Mark, and thank you for the welcome.

The coin is an 1892 Barber half dollar and I have attached (I believe this was done correctly) an image of the coin, slab and sticker.  At the time of acquisition, about a dozen years ago, one could buy an average (euphemistic term for "yuck") PCGS MS66 Barber half dollar in the $4,000-$4,500 range while really nice coins (if they could ever be found!) were in the $6,000-$6,500 range.  I paid in the higher range for my coin.  Also, at that time a PCGS MS67 Barber half dollar would run at least $12,000 and up to $18,000 or thereabouts.  I don't recall if the + grades were being handed out at that time.  Today the MS66 cost would be as low as $3,500 and the MS67 cost might be less than $8,000 (in both cases for what I consider inferior coins) while true knockouts have held their value, in my opinion.

When I told the bulk of these experienced, seasoned, respectable, reputable, incredibly well-known dealers what I paid they all thought I was buried and then when the coin came back with the gold CAC sticker they all wanted to buy it at the high end of the MS67 range.  I guess this shouldn't be so much of a surprise given that even today, more than a decade after CAC was established, they have only awarded 17-business strike Barber half dollars a gold sticker while they have awarded 3,679-green stickers and if we assume a 44% success rate, which I think quite realistic, then around 8,400 business strike Barber half dollars have been submitted to CAC for evaluation.  This works out to about one gold CAC sticker for every 494-business strikes submitted for this series.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

TBJI1892P66SO.JPG

Judging strictly from the picture, and assuming the reverse matches the obverse,  I would say it is worth 67+ money.

And, welcome back to the sunny side, TomB. :)

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The reverse matches the obverse and might actually be a hair nicer.

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I've always found really nice Barbers challenging, so many are "washed out", lackluster. Yours is a real beauty, one can see the luster in the photo, I'll bet it booms in hand. Interesting that so many dealers "followed the plastic". Confirms my opinion that really good taste is rare, even among professionals. . 

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1 hour ago, LINCOLNMAN said:

I've always found really nice Barbers challenging, so many are "washed out", lackluster. Yours is a real beauty, one can see the luster in the photo, I'll bet it booms in hand. Interesting that so many dealers "followed the plastic". Confirms my opinion that really good taste is rare, even among professionals. . 

I don’t think that “following the plastic” or in this case, sticker, speaks to the taste of the dealers. Tom described them as “..experienced, seasoned, respectable, reputable...”. Based on that and the look of the coin, I’d bet that they liked it, just fine.

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2 hours ago, MarkFeld said:

I don’t think that “following the plastic” or in this case, sticker, speaks to the taste of the dealers. Tom described them as “..experienced, seasoned, respectable, reputable...”. Based on that and the look of the coin, I’d bet that they liked it, just fine.

According to Tom's post the dealers he showed it to liked his coin a bunch more with the sticker, unless of course they were sandbagging the first time around. 

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28 minutes ago, LINCOLNMAN said:

According to Tom's post the dealers he showed it to liked his coin a bunch more with the sticker, unless of course they were sandbagging the first time around. 

Maybe Tom can clear it up for us, but I didn’t see where he mentioned anything about how much or little the dealers liked the coin, itself. But rather, they went from thinking he was “buried” in it, to wanting to buy it. It sounded largely about price and not just the coin.

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My post had meant to convey that all the dealers loved the coin when I first showed it to them and they all asked what I had paid to obtain the piece.  I did not find this odd as I have/had a good working relationship with all of them (recall this is about 10-12 years ago so some might not be actively in the business anymore) and I told them honestly what I paid.  At that point each dealer, except for one, told me he/she loved the coin, but that I paid too much and wouldn't be able to break even.  The lone exception was one dealer who offered me nearly $20k for the coin even though he knew I paid essentially one-third that price.  Later, after the coin received the CAC gold sticker, I brought it back to Baltimore and showed it to the same dealers who had seen it previously.  This time, their reactions were that they still loved the coin and each offered me around the same number that the previous dealer offered (nearly $20k) at the prior show.

In other words, all the dealers loved the coin both before and after the sticker, but the bulk of the dealers valued it differently once it had the gold CAC sticker.

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Thanks again, Tom - I’ve been there and done that, just as those dealers did. 

:wink:
Edited by MarkFeld

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For TomB:.Switching gears a bit - You have considerable experience with photographing coins. Was it difficult to capture the look of this one?

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