confused coin ratings and costs

[Robert k Rodeheaver]

Explain why it is that an 1885 CC morgan silver dollar in witch NGC has only certified 37 coins in VF30 could possibly be worth less than the same coin in MS63 or above? Any Morgan collector would know that NGC has certified over 20.000 high grade coins of this year and mint mark because very few in fact were put in to circulation.. It would appear to even a novice coin collector that RARE coins would command the higher cost, not the common variety! For a coin to be put into circulation when so very few were and stay in circulation long enough to become worn to VF30 would seem to me very rare, stuck inside a bag in some bank vault some place not so much! Am I completely correct here or just being unreasonable 

[Just Bob]

What you are describing would not be true rarity, but "condition rarity," and that only works one way. You can't turn an MS63 into an MS68, but it would be a simple matter to turn an MS63 into a VF30.

I can't think of any instance where, given two normal coins of the same date and mint mark, but different grades, the lower graded coin is worth more. If that were the case, you could buy mint state coins and wear them down, then sell them at a higher price. 

[Robert k Rodeheaver]

That's 1960 thinking Just Bob, NGC certified coins are closely inspected for any type of abnormal wear! Are you kidding me, you don't think those people or any other coin grading company cant tell if a coin was messed with in any way possible! That's their job part timer. Those people are in that line of work because they know what there doing and will tell you if its not the real deal! you argument sucks! And if you could turn a MS60 into a MS70 that's the way rip offs would go, not the other way around. You would make a poor lawyer sir! My argument stands valid !

 

[Mohawk]

1 hour ago, Robert k Rodeheaver said:

That's 1960 thinking Just Bob, NGC certified coins are closely inspected for any type of abnormal wear! Are you kidding me, you don't think those people or any other coin grading company cant tell if a coin was messed with in any way possible! That's their job part timer. Those people are in that line of work because they know what there doing and will tell you if its not the real deal! you argument sucks! And if you could turn a MS60 into a MS70 that's the way rip offs would go, not the other way around. You would make a poor lawyer sir! My argument stands valid !

 

Well.....that's a rude response to someone who was trying to answer your question.  Anyhow, try this answer on: demand.  There are so many nice Mint State 1885-CC Morgans around that they are very affordable in nice MS grades.  Essentially every collector who wants a nice MS 1885-CC can have one and most collectors prefer to have their coins in as high of a grade of preservation as possible.  Yes, there are a few low-ball collectors out there, but they are the exception and not the rule.  As Mint State 1885-CC dollars are so available and affordable, the demand for a VF 1885-CC outside of the small circle of low ball collectors is very small.  Therefore, there is no premium attached to a VF 1885-CC Morgan in that grade even though it is "rare" compared to the same coin in MS.  And, this isn't "1960 thinking", to quote you, it's reality.  Unless low ball collecting takes off in a huge way and becomes more prevalent than other forms of collecting, which it will not, your VF 1885-CC will be worth less than a Mint State piece forever because the demand for it will always be very low compared to the demand for the widely available mint state pieces of this issue.

[Robert k Rodeheaver]

mohawk, sorry, didn't mean to come off as rude but to assume someone would destroy a MS65 morgan CC to turn it into a VF30 is NOT what a counterfeiter of these coins would ever do, can we agree on that point at all? Witch means Just Bob knows not what he speaks, And Condition rarity is a foolish two words to live by, used by someone most likely trying to rip you off or unsure of a coins real worth. I stand by my original post, the 1885CC VF30 should by every definition of collecting coins be valued by a collector higher and be sought after more than a MS65 1885CC. NGC 37 certified at VF30, over 20000 at MS 63 or higher. And if you don't think that makes the VF30 far more rare and it should command 1889CC morgan prices all day long, then consider me rude!!!!!

[Mohawk]

Hey Robert,

It's all right......sometimes we all can say things that sound different in our heads than they sound in print or out loud.  That said, I see the point you are trying to make, but as I said before, a huge part of collectible coin values is in collector demand for the coin in question.  This is the reason that there are some U.S. coins which aren't that rare command much higher prices than some non-U.S. coins which are much rarer.  A great example is the 1909-S VDB Lincoln Cent.  1909-S VDB's are not rare coins by any stretch of the imagination, but the demand for them is currently huge, so the price is there.  I have a few world coins in my own sales venture right now that actually are rare, but they sell for less than a 1909-S VDB because the demand for them is lower.  The important thing to remember is rare only equals valuable when there are people who actually want to purchase said rare item, therefore creating a demand.  I'm not saying that an 1885-CC Morgan in VF isn't rarer than one in Mint State.  It undoubtedly is as there was a considerable percentage of the original mintage left in Mint State in government vaults to be sold through the GSA sales in the 1970's.  Your problem isn't rarity, that's there.  Your problem is demand.  The massive amounts of 1885-CC's in gorgeous MS grades from the GSA sales that are on the market kill the demand for your 1885-CC in VF.  From what I've seen in almost 20 years of collecting, the existence of all of those MS 1885-CC's kills the demand for the coin in VF and it's hard to picture collector psychology changing enough to create enough demand for a "low ball" 1885-CC Morgan to cause a VF to be priced higher than the same coin in MS, let alone achieving a price level comparable to an 1889-CC.  For a long time, the higher the grade, the more sought after and valued a coin is to most collectors.  Most coin collectors desire as beautiful and well preserved examples of coins as they can afford.  For a coin like the 1903-S Morgan, where most of them are circulated, a VF coin would be highly sought after and valued.  However, in the sea of nice MS 1885-CC Morgans, a VF example, though rarer than a MS example, will never see any significant demand because of the ease of locating and buying a MS example.  The demand for your VF 1885-CC will never be there at a level to justify the price level you feel that the coin should command.

~Tom

[Robert k Rodeheaver]

That explanation stands up to careful thought, so I did, and your explanation makes sense I gotta think about this some more! By the way , Both you and Just Bob seem to think the majority of Morgans sold are MS certified , I think your both mislead into thinking that!  Most collectors don't need or cant afford all those high dollar coins, this is a hobby for most collectors not an occupation. MS60 to MS70 and the top 6 are out of most peoples income levels. If you had a complete Morgan set minus the 1885P and every coin was MS64 or higher give me a yes if you could afford it . If you cant then you shouldn't be so high on buying an MS for 84.000 dollars,and if you can hats off to you, you made it! I think far to much importance is put on the fact the coin is shinny, I had a mess load of American eagles and maples and got rid of all of them because the were boring as hell to look at, that's how I got into Morgans,  have a complete set , no 85 but all the others G6 to MS64+ only one bellow F20 is the 93s that's the G6 of course. A nice collection of circulated and mint state coins with 40 certified NGC. Have a nice evening

[Petena64]

Does anyone know what state this seller lives in. Because I live in a area of old people getting scammed all the time and I’m sick of it them getting scammed .i think I’m onto something 

[Robert k Rodeheaver]

you don't need to be old to be scammed, as a matter of fact, far more young People get scammed than old because their stupid and greedy and fall for the dumbest mess you can imagine! The first guy that bought the bridge in Brooklyn was a 28 year old punk!

[Davids5104]

I think an 1885CC in VF may not be worth grading.  you can get this coin between 20 and AU for about the same price, so why pay the fees for a VF30?