UNC CLEANED
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SO, MY COIN IS COMING BACK SLABBED "UNC DETAILS CLEANED." MY FIRST QUESTION IS: WHY WOULD YOU SLAB A COIN THAT'S NOT GRADED?" SECOND  QUESTION IS:  I WOULD THINK IF YOU DETERMINED THAT THE COIN WAS CLEANED EARLY IN THE PROCESS. SO, WHY GO THROUGH WITH  "GRADING"  IF AT THIS POINT THE "GRADE" CAN'T BE DETERMINED ? I SEEM TO HAVE WASTED TIME AND MONEY. AGAIN, WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD THE GRADING PROCESS CONTINUE ? I AM IMMENSELY DISAPPOINTED HAVING NOT HEARD A PEEP FROM NGC WHILE MY COIN WAS IN YOUR POSSESSION. YES I HAVE AN ACCOUNT. YES I CHECKED "MY SUBMISSIONS."  ALL IT SAID WAS THE PROCESS THAT THE COIN GOES THROUGH.  NO COMMUNICATION WHATSOEVER. I THINK I SHOULD HAVE BEEN GIVEN THE OPTION OF GOING THROUGH WITH THE "GRADING PROCESS." SO, NOW I HAVE A SLABBED COIN THAT IS WORTHLESS.  AGAIN, I FEEL NGC SHOULD'VE GIVEN ME THE OPTION WHETHER TO PROCEED OR NOT.             PAUL PECORA

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Thank you for your question. I have copied a link to our details grading page below which provides additional details on the process as well as the NGC details grading scale. Each coin is evaluated by multiple experts who determine the coins authenticity and grade. If a coin is determined to be genuine it will be graded and encapsulated by NGC. In some cases, coins have been improperly cleaned, holed, or contain scratches and NGC cannot provide a numerical grade due to the condition. If a coin is labeled as "UNC Details cleaned", the coin is genuine, the general grade has been determined as Uncirculated and the additional information of "cleaning" is provided. The online submission tracking section of your account will provide you with status updates but the grades are not made available until the items are shipped back to the customer. 

 

https://www.ngccoin.com/coin-grading/details-grading/

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Matt: I agree with the frustration of not finding out derogatory remarks such as CLEANED prior to slabbing. For example, I just received back an UNCIRCULATED and slabbed UNC--DETAIL double eagle from  one of your competitors.  I carefully examined the coin with magnifier both sides and can see NO areas where details are not readily visible. 

 Can I submit it to NGC for examination at the normal price? If I am right and you find sufficient detail to grade, I will have an uncirculated coin with a grade which is marketable instead of an ounce of bullion.  Please reply to my account email address. Thank you.  vayidaho

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If I may:

UNC-DETAILS does not mean that the details are lacking. It means that the coin is uncirculated (has the details of an uncirculated coin), but has issues that prevent  it from receiving a numerical grade, at least in the eyes of that particular TPG. If no explanation was given, it could be cleaned, tooled, damaged, or some other problem, at least in their opinion.

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I feel like this is one of those areas where NGC is just never going to be able to win. Back in the day NGC used to send back coins that would have gotten "details grades" now in plastic bags with labels that people called "body bags" because when it got put in that bag the coin was essentially "dead." People complained that they would have at least liked having the coin in a slab / holder and with it showing that the coin is genuine at least. So, NGC, having historically had pretty great customer service and listening to people when they can, started the policy of details grading and slabbing coins that were at least genuine. And now people complain about them doing that when the policy and the approach to handing the situation is detailed on the website. I think it just goes to show that you'll never please everyone. But, honestly, they do about the best job you can reasonably expect.

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UNC CLEANED --- Cleaned with what ? They should make available how it was determined. My coin looks more like a scratch than "cleaned." For the money we pay, there should be a more elaborate description on how they determined their conclusion. Don't get me wrong. NGC is top notch. EOM

 

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Cleaned, through a 7x loop, if the coin does NOT show a cartwheel effect when you tilt the coin in the light, its most likely cleaned, #2, if you see around the rim, or in case of Morgan's around the stars or around the figure on the coin a blackish areas, and the rest of the coin looks a bit brighter, then also cleaned. A dull field with other areas bright, = cleaned. Just my experiences. 

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On 2/24/2019 at 8:26 AM, Paul Pecora said:

UNC CLEANED --- Cleaned with what ? They should make available how it was determined. My coin looks more like a scratch than "cleaned." For the money we pay, there should be a more elaborate description on how they determined their conclusion. Don't get me wrong. NGC is top notch. EOM

 

Yeah. I have several NGC certified 19th century gold coins from the Netherlands, some of which feature die polish lines because they were struck with slightly later (not new) die-state. The lines that produces / the look that gives the coin can sometimes give the coin an odd appearance, almost like it was brushed. I remember years ago when I was first starting to collect that these lines threw me off so bad I thought I had an NGC-graded silver eagle that had been cleaned, which I knew made no sense but I'd never heard about die polishing or die polish lines and I just didn't know what I was looking at. The signs that I coin has been cleaned or rubbed can honestly be really subtle sometimes and it can trick you. I can understand the frustration there.

I'm sorry you got disappointed on this. Hopefully you'll have more luck next time.

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I also have wasted a lot of money getting coins graded that ended up with a Detail grade of being cleaned.  You cannot go strictly by the cartwheel - as I have received a coin back that does cartwheel with the Detail cleaned.  The only advantage I see in having a Details coin is if it is extremely rare - if there are only 600 examples known who is going to quibble about an XF Details Cleaned?

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7 hours ago, notshyross said:

- if there are only 600 examples known who is going to quibble about an XF Details Cleaned?

A) Collectors/ investors with the resources to buy only the very finest examples. 

B) Collectors who only buy top grade pieces for registry sets or just for the satisfaction / prestige of having condition census or finest known coins. 

C) Collectors of Conder tokens, Bust Halves by Overton numbers, or any other series in which the number of known examples is relatively small. 

I understand your conclusion, but you have to remember that, for many series, 600 pieces extant would be a huge hoard.

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The customer is paying for the service of having their coin graded. If the coin cannot be graded due to issues, at least give the customer the option of having the coin slabbed or not. A nominal fee for looking at the coin is expected but why cycle it through multiple graders and then through the encapsulation process?  Just because the coin ends up in the slab doesn't mean it's going to stay there. This is not a complicated problem. There could easily be a question on the submission form asking the submitter whether to encapsulate the coin regardless of condition or return the coin with notations. This all comes down to customer service in my opinion and this is an area any company providing a service could improve upon.  

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