Proof Like Wheat Cent Penny ?
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32 posts in this topic

7 hours ago, coinman1794 said:

The obverse looks borderline PL, but keep in mind that NGC is very strict. There is no video of the reverse. I think it should at least get a Star.

If not visible, left click the obverse video frame which will reveal a arrow to view the reverse video.

Edited by WoodenJefferson
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I did find the reverse video, thanks!

The call is going to be very close, as it still seems a little bit borderline. The mirrors have to be unbroken with consistent reflectivity. The angle of the video is not adequate for examination, as many semi-PL coins will reflect text in that way. The reverse looks a little bit stronger. I can't tell if it the obverse has areas where frosty starbursting interrupts the reflection in spots. 

As of a couple years ago, there had been only 1 PL bronze Lincoln cent certified, so NGC is very hard on them.

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No. PL fields have to be clear and obvious. I don't think this one qualifies. (Now -- if there were open standards for PL, the question might not exist.)

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On 5/22/2018 at 11:17 PM, coinman1794 said:

I did find the reverse video, thanks!

The call is going to be very close, as it still seems a little bit borderline. The mirrors have to be unbroken with consistent reflectivity. The angle of the video is not adequate for examination, as many semi-PL coins will reflect text in that way. The reverse looks a little bit stronger. I can't tell if it the obverse has areas where frosty starbursting interrupts the reflection in spots. 

As of a couple years ago, there had been only 1 PL bronze Lincoln cent certified, so NGC is very hard on them.

I've owned two NGC PL Lincolns. Those were from 2004 and 2007. The population isn't very big for PL Memorials, but they are non existent for Wheats, at least copper ones. 

 

It's been scanned into the system so hopefully by weeks end we have an answer. 

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On 5/20/2018 at 8:31 PM, WoodenJefferson said:

Our resident PL expert Physicsfan appears to be on hiatus, I trust robec's opinion also, so probably a yes.

Yes, Robec was nice enough to contact him for me and he's seen the video and his response was 

 

"Wow, that is by far the most PL copper Wheat I've ever seen. Your pictures in the GTG thread aren't convincing (I would have guessed that the obverse was a strong semi-prooflike, and the reverse wasn't as strong - I probably would have guessed it may earn a Star). 

However, your video is quite convincing. The obverse in the video looks slightly weaker than the reverse, but still should qualify for PL based on what I'm seeing. 

What I've found after a few years of submitting PL coins raw.... NGC doesn't always really consider an unusual series for PL. They'll grade the coin accurately, but they don't necessarily think to call it PL. I've questioned them about this (and not just the lowly folk... I've talked to David Lange and Mark Salzberg directly about this). It's just so esoteric that the graders don't even think to include it."

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Our graders do look for things like PL, FB, FBL, etc. automatically as part of the grading process. The bar for getting PL with most coin types is pretty high, and it has to apply to both sides of the coin. The example illustrated does have distracting die polishing lines. These don't preclude it from getting a PL designation, but they also don't weigh in its favor.

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23 minutes ago, DWLange said:

Our graders do look for things like PL, FB, FBL, etc. automatically as part of the grading process. The bar for getting PL with most coin types is pretty high, and it has to apply to both sides of the coin. The example illustrated does have distracting die polishing lines. These don't preclude it from getting a PL designation, but they also don't weigh in its favor.

Were you able to view the video in the original post? I'm curious of your opinions based upon the video. It's in line to head to the grading room as of this morning. 

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On 5/29/2018 at 10:04 AM, DWLange said:

The example illustrated does have distracting die polishing lines. These don't preclude it from getting a PL designation, but they also don't weigh in its favor.

Literally every single PL coin from the mid-20th century has die polish lines just like this. The polishing of the die is what gives it the PL effect. I've never seen a PL coin from the mid-20th century that did not have these die polish lines. 

The thing is, it's really, really hard to take a good picture of this type of PL coin. These coins absolutely have to be seen in hand. The video gives a much better idea of what the coin looks like. 

And, on multiple occasions, I've had coins that did not get PL on the first try but then got it when I re-submitted for designation review. This tells me there is something missing from the initial grading process - they only look for it when I tell them to. 

Edited by physics-fan3.14
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On 7/27/2018 at 4:12 PM, physics-fan3.14 said:

Literally every single PL coin from the mid-20th century has die polish lines just like this. The polishing of the die is what gives it the PL effect. I've never seen a PL coin from the mid-20th century that did not have these die polish lines. 

The thing is, it's really, really hard to take a good picture of this type of PL coin. These coins absolutely have to be seen in hand. The video gives a much better idea of what the coin looks like. 

And, on multiple occasions, I've had coins that did not get PL on the first try but then got it when I re-submitted for designation review. This tells me there is something missing from the initial grading process - they only look for it when I tell them to. 

I don't recall any die polish lines on my PL buffalo nickel, but it is the only PL coin that I have owned or had occasion to view from the 1930s through the mid 1950s that didn't have heavy die polish lines.  This includes pretty much every series that PL designated coins exist for including steel cents, Mercury Dimes, silver Roosevelt Dimes, Walking Liberty Half Dollars, Franklin Half Dollars, Washington quarters, and Jefferson nickels (including war nickels).

Edited by coinman_23885
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On 5/29/2018 at 10:29 AM, BIGTEE44 said:

Were you able to view the video in the original post? I'm curious of your opinions based upon the video. It's in line to head to the grading room as of this morning. 

Did they at least give it a star for semi-PL fields if it didn't make a full designation?  Awarding a star for a just miss coin is very common.

Edited by coinman_23885
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21 hours ago, coinman_23885 said:

 

I don't recall any die polish lines on my PL buffalo nickel, but it is the only PL coin that I have owned or had occasion to view from the 1930s through the mid 1950s that didn't have heavy die polish lines.  This includes pretty much every series that PL designated coins exist for including steel cents, Mercury Dimes, silver Roosevelt Dimes, Walking Liberty Half Dollars, Franklin Half Dollars, Washington quarters, and Jefferson nickels (including war nickels).

The polished-PL dies of San Fransico, seen between 1934 to 1955, seem to have started out looking like smooth glass, with very fine polishing lines. As the dies began to wear, the lines would become more pronounced, appearing to get wider and more raised. Eventually starbursting would erase them and a thick frost would take over completely. Some Denver Mint pieces show the same surfaces, while a select few other Denver PLs have an orange peal textured PL luster, in addition to the fine polishing lines. The same thing happens to them as they wear out. Your 1936-D nickel seems to be in the latter category.

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On 8/7/2018 at 2:36 AM, coinman_23885 said:

Did they at least give it a star for semi-PL fields if it didn't make a full designation?  Awarding a star for a just miss coin is very common.

they did not.

 

I had a friend take it to the ANA in Philly and asked Mark if the coin was PL. He said neither side was PL, no further explanation. It's being sent off for a few more sets of eyes to look at it. It might end up heading over to ANACS to see if they will grade it with the designation. 

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This coin seems to have semi-PL qualities, but the mirrors don't seem to be strong enough to actually qualify as PL. It probably won't qualify as a Star because most semi-PL, Star coins will have a fully PL obverse. Personally, I wouldn't waist any more money on this one. PL collectors will recognize that it's special.

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IMG_5873.thumb.JPG.ef09073b5b5027fc020d7c79d1868d03.JPGIMG_6533.thumb.JPG.d90aebe1a4e6970b8743daa246bd1ce3.JPG

Hi Big Tee and others, 

I am new here and was hoping to get some expert like opinions from anyone who posted on this thread Big Tee started regarding PL wheat cents.  I have four coins, all Philadelphia minted: 1936-1939 Lincoln Cents, which I found in my Stepfather's belongings after he passed last year.  Do these surfaces appear in the ballpark of PL? 

Thanks,

Ryan

 

 

IMG_5872.JPG

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From those pics they could be anything.  Could be PL, could be polished, plated or cleaned.  We'll need more close up and crisp images to be able to help you.

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13 hours ago, RWB said:

Objective measurements would easily resolve this kind of situation, but few seem interested in using technology to enhance capabilities.

Could you describe the technology you propose, and how it would be used? Few may seem interested because few know about what you're talking about. 

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Every surface scatters light. Smoother surfaces scatter less. Dispersion of a collimated light beam reflected from a surface can be used to create a stable definition of the percent of scatter. Calibration is based on human-assigned value bins for PL and DMPL. Once determined and validated, components can be packaged and used anywhere. Automation and connection to existing software is a Jr. HS programming project.

People often confuse the name of the thing for the thing.

Edited by RWB
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