Interesting New Rochelle commemorative

[JIM F.]

Came across this on Ebay.

https://m.ebay.com/itm/1938-New-Rochelle-Silver-50c-Commem-ANACS-MS-60-Dtl-Polished-Presentation-Strik/201073946032?hash=item2ed0f0edb0:g:N~wAAMXQyY1TTX5c

Trying to understand 1) if this really is a presentation piece why is it in an ANACS holder without such a designation 2) ANACS holder says it is polished which would give it little value above melt  -- if so it seems  the seller may be trying to deceive an unsuspecting buyer 3) does this violate Ebay listing policy? 

Perhaps there is something I am not seeing in this coin?

 

[mommam17]

Seller must determine it's a presentation piece and priced it accordingly. Being it's not on holder, I doubt it is, unless I am missing something also?

[LINCOLNMAN]

No support for the presentation claim appears to be provided. 

[WoodenJefferson]

~zero~ provenance. 

[Conder101]

Your not missing anything it's a polished coin with MS-60 details.  No reason to call it a presentation strike, at least none that I can see.

[BillJones]

As I remember there were a few New Rochelle half dollars had a brighter than normal surface from the mint. The mintage 100 sticks in my mind. These pieces were not Proofs, and I have seen a couple of pieces that NGC graded with that disignation.

This coin is not one of those pieces. It is a normal New Rochelle that someone has polished. You can see the frosted areas, especially on the reverse when the polisher did not reach. The real thing is bright all over, and as I remember it, it was not an unusually attractlive coin, but we are going back about 20 years in my memory.

[WoodenJefferson]

Bill...I trust your memory vs. a e-Bay seller hyping a low grade detail graded commemorative.

[MarkFeld]

2 hours ago, BillJones said:

As I remember there were a few New Rochelle half dollars had a brighter than normal surface from the mint. The mintage 100 sticks in my mind. These pieces were not Proofs, and I have seen a couple of pieces that NGC graded with that disignation.

This coin is not one of those pieces. It is a normal New Rochelle that someone has polished. You can see the frosted areas, especially on the reverse when the polisher did not reach. The real thing is bright all over, and as I remember it, it was not an unusually attractlive coin, but we are going back about 20 years in my memory.

NGC has used both the "PL" and "Specimen" designations for a number of the brilliant New Rochelle's. The only ones labeled "Proof" are matte/sandblast examples.

[WoodenJefferson]

PCGS Coin Facts: During the minting of the New Rochelle Half Dollars, mint employees struck 50 examples using polished planchets and polished dies.  According to Walter Breen, these coins received only one blow from the coining press, thus the resultant quality is more akin to a Prooflike coin than a true Proof.  NGC has long recognized these special coins as Specimen strikings; PCGS began recognizing them as Specimens in July 2015, at which time at least three coins were crossed over.

Potential buyers should be aware that numerous Prooflike business strikes exist.  Certification is a must to help separate the Prooflikes from the Specimens.

According to researcher, Kevin Flynn, the 50 special New Rochelle Half Dollars were  "...distributed in dark red boxes with a velvet liner...  These had documents specifying which number they were struck.  They include[d] a silver medal produced by Tiffany & Company from Lorriland Wise's original reverse."  This same reverse was used on 1938 medals produced by the Westchester Coin Club of New York to promote the New Rochelle Half Dollars, but those medals were issued by themselves in smaller, gilt boxes.

[MarkFeld]

18 minutes ago, WoodenJefferson said:

PCGS Coin Facts: During the minting of the New Rochelle Half Dollars, mint employees struck 50 examples using polished planchets and polished dies.  According to Walter Breen, these coins received only one blow from the coining press, thus the resultant quality is more akin to a Prooflike coin than a true Proof.  NGC has long recognized these special coins as Specimen strikings; PCGS began recognizing them as Specimens in July 2015, at which time at least three coins were crossed over.

Potential buyers should be aware that numerous Prooflike business strikes exist.  Certification is a must to help separate the Prooflikes from the Specimens.

According to researcher, Kevin Flynn, the 50 special New Rochelle Half Dollars were  "...distributed in dark red boxes with a velvet liner...  These had documents specifying which number they were struck.  They include[d] a silver medal produced by Tiffany & Company from Lorriland Wise's original reverse."  This same reverse was used on 1938 medals produced by the Westchester Coin Club of New York to promote the New Rochelle Half Dollars, but those medals were issued by themselves in smaller, gilt boxes.

That begs the question - how do you distinguish a "PL" from a "Specimen"? 

[JIM F.]

Regarding my original post.  Since the forum members do not believe that this coin on Ebay is a "specimen", is the listing fraudulent and violate EBay's policy?  If an acceptable answer is that the seller's opinion overrides the facts, then anyone can say anything about any coin in an attempt to fool an inexperienced buyer, which in turn, would turn off any potential collectors/buyers and certainly "cheapen" the hobby.  The seller's profile states "Over 50 Years Experience In Numismatics. Member PNG, ANA, ICTA, PCGS, NGC, and more. Full time dealer, with a retail store in downtown SS."  So does PNG, ANA, ICTA, PCGS, NGC, and "more" condone this type of practice and if so, what is the point of stating one's membership?  The answer to this would be of interest to me.

Thanks, I have a pet peeve about people trying to take advantage of others.  BTW, I do not know the seller,  and have never dealt with him, so this post is nothing personal, and I first thought that there might be some type of indicator on the coin for one to claim it is a "specimen".

 

[MarkFeld]

36 minutes ago, jimbucks said:

Regarding my original post.  Since the forum members do not believe that this coin on Ebay is a "specimen", is the listing fraudulent and violate EBay's policy?  If an acceptable answer is that the seller's opinion overrides the facts, then anyone can say anything about any coin in an attempt to fool an inexperienced buyer, which in turn, would turn off any potential collectors/buyers and certainly "cheapen" the hobby.  The seller's profile states "Over 50 Years Experience In Numismatics. Member PNG, ANA, ICTA, PCGS, NGC, and more. Full time dealer, with a retail store in downtown SS."  So does PNG, ANA, ICTA, PCGS, NGC, and "more" condone this type of practice and if so, what is the point of stating one's membership?  The answer to this would be of interest to me.

Thanks, I have a pet peeve about people trying to take advantage of others.  BTW, I do not know the seller,  and have never dealt with him, so this post is nothing personal, and I first thought that there might be some type of indicator on the coin for one to claim it is a "specimen".

 

I believe that at the very least, including "Specimen" in the listing title amounts to keyword spamming. For those who don't know, the seller is Julian Leidman.

[WoodenJefferson]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1938-Specimen-New-Rochelle-Commemorative-Half-Dollar-NGC-MS-66-PL-/190765857444?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item2c6a87faa4&rmvSB=true

Well now this is confusing as the label reads 'PL' but the heading reads **Specimen** which is it?

[Just Bob]

So, that is at least two instances of the same seller using misleading titles.

Isn't he a poster ATS? Not that that has any significance - just wondered if anyone had ever called him on it.

[mumu]

He's on the board of experts so it must be true 

Look around their inventory, youll find a lot of unattributed proofs.

[BillJones]

Quote

 believe that at the very least, including "Specimen" in the listing title amounts to keyword spamming. For those who don't know, the seller is Julian Leidman.

That explains it. I like Julian, but he has a habit of offering items with his own take on them instead of the statements made on the slab label when he does not agree with the grading company conclusions. I’ll stick to my opinion that this piece is not one of those special New Rochelle commemorative half dollar.