real or counterfeit?

[Michael55]

Hi everyone, What are your opinions? Real or Fake? Should I send it to the experts?

[Capone1929]

Chances are it is not, but there is a possibility it could be, results are inconclusive! 

[Michael55]

Thanks for the reply Capone. I have had mixed results with posting these pictures. Some say it is counterfeit, others say it is not. What strikes me is the detail in the dragon. Claws pointing correctly, Even the scales are correct from my comparison to pictures of a real one. There are details missing from the top of the head, but that appears to be a possible weak strike to me. As a novice it looks like a coin would look if struck in 1907. But again I am a novice.

[Capone1929]

I am novice myself, I will take a guess as just that, my observations and thought, here are my CONCERNS" very RARE but not unheard of,  and in almost too good to be true condition, but not a deal breaker! Then There has been an extreme amount of coins of this rarity, nature, and value counterfeited ( influx  of market from the orient as well, for a good motive, but the main thing is the letters are not as sharp as you would think they should be, even with enviro damage, the "G" is a mess on dragon side and sloppy a red flag for sure, but other causes a possibility,  it could be environmental or age, however more age probably should be present, This is Just my observations and opinion, and that is deffinately not an expert one! That's a novice one. Cons out way Pros, by process of elimination, but someone including you may have COMPLETE different and much more educated opinion than this simple novice look, good luck, 

Capone

[Capone1929]

Instinct tells me No! Wishful thinking tells me, wants it to be real, be a real cool find and score, but there is a slim chance not likely, but possible it could be authentic, however odds are not good! Hope for your sake it is, get a better opinion than mine, from someone more educated than I. I'm %50/%50

[jgenn]

I'm not an expert in this type but for any suspect silver coin you should check that it is not magnetic and that the weight is correct. 

[Capone1929]

Thank you for the input and response all are appreciated! I checked the weight an 1892 O is supposed to be 12.5 grams with tolerance plus or minus, now if it is worn and weighs 11.9 grams would that be in tolerance if non magnetic? Just double checking my info, Thanks again for your time, Capone 1929 

[Tjolivette]

Sorry if I’m using the site wrong but does anyone know what type of coin this is? 

[jgenn]

It's best practice to start a new thread when you want to discuss a completely different coin from the OP.  And please put some details about the coin in the title.

[Michael55]

First off, Thanks for the well balanced approach and responses from all of you. Wish I had joined this forum a long time ago. Great points that I will remember Capone.

I have to say, I have starred at pictures of the real coins and have even counted the scales, dots etc until my eyes hurt. The angles of the lettering and the intricacies are damn good. If it is counterfeit, (likely) then kudos to the artist who copied it, I would say a master of his/her craft. Of all of the pictures of counterfeits, this one would win top prize from what I have seen. There are a lot of suspect spots on this coin I agree. The strike on the obverse seems weak and some things are not showing, but what is showing in these troubled spots are in their correct positions from what I can see. However my mind is also thinking, this was supposedly struck in 1907 and Even now the modern Mints still do not get their coins struck perfectly. I have current coins that are 2017- 2018 that have absolutely no detail due to die deterioration, weak strikes etc. Justification I know, hehe. And I agree that the cons outweigh the pros. The reverse seems a little flat to me. But comparing it to circulated silver coins worldwide from the same era, I see what appears to be normal wear. Another layer to peel.

jgenn, the weight of this coin is 34.4 grams and it is non magnetic. Another layer to peel as I have read that weights have been recorded from 28.8 grams to 50.0 grams, what most say is this should weigh, 50 grams. So it is a little light, and more than the normal tolerable limit.

The history that I know of this particular coin is that it was given to me in the early 80's because I was born the year of the dragon. I put it in a cigar box with a few others and forgot about it. I found it again a few months ago and started researching to see what it actually is, or supposed to be. It has at least not had normal wear for a little over 20 years. And the person who gave it to me said it was in their family for as long as they could remember. At that time I thought it was just a so called lucky coin. I had no idea it was even silver, or what it is supposed to be. I have always loved the obverse design and that is why I kept it.

In the end I thought about having it graded, just to determine if it is authentic or counterfeit. I have never done this so I am researching this option as well. I just don't know enough about these and there are to many variables with Chihli's. The research has been fun and I have met some nice people along the way so it has been worth the effort so far.

I pulled these pics of a known real coin from NGC resources.

 

 

 

[Conder101]

Comparing your coin to the known genuine piece I would say yours is a copy.  The dragon is different , the letter font on the obv is different and the caligraphy on the rev is much cruder and broader than the delicate lines on the genuine coin.

 

As for the second piece it appears to be a button based loosely on a Liberty head quarter eagle, or it could be a game counter that was made into a button at some point.

[Just Bob]

10 hours ago, Michael55 said:

 

If it is counterfeit, (likely) then kudos to the artist who copied it, I would say a master of his/her craft. Of all of the pictures of counterfeits, this one would win top prize from what I have seen.

 

 

 

These days, it can be accomplished by anyone with a computer, scanner, CNC milling machine, and a powerful press. Since you can account for this example since the early 80's we can probably rule this particular method out, but remember that we are dealing with a group of people (assuming it is a Chinese counterfeit) who have had centuries of practice counterfeiting coins.