Does NGC Recognize this as a Variety?

[Tempvs Fvgit]

If I were to submit an 1893 Columbian half dollar with the obverse proof diagnostics (shown in the following NGC link), along with a VarietyPlus submission, then will NGC mark it as a variety on the graded label? Here's NGC's own article confirming that a proof die was used for business strikes, which clearly indicates that a distinct variety of die was used from most other circulation strike Columbian half dollars: https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/3083/1892-Columbian-Half-Dollar (image below).

I understand that the article discusses the 1892 Columbian half dollar, but the dies were reused the following year as the same exact die diagnostics are found on 1893 Columbian half dollars. Also, for both the 1892 and 1893 years, NGC does not show different varieties. Here are the two NGC pages for the Columbian halves:

+ https://www.ngccoin.com/coin-explorer/silver-commemoratives-1892-1954-pscid-71/1892-columbian-50c-ms-coinid-19294

+ https://www.ngccoin.com/coin-explorer/silver-commemoratives-pscid-71/1893-columbian-50c-ms-coinid-19297

 

 

 

 

 

[DWLange]

If I'm reading this correctly your question is will NGC identify proof dies on an MS example. The answer to that is no---NGC will certify a coin as a proof based on the quality of strike and finish, in combination with the dies. NGC will not identify the dies as proof dies on anything other than an actual proof.

[Tempvs Fvgit]

Will NGC label the coin as a variety just like the 1921 Peace Dollar VAM-1H? That particular coin is a business strike coin that was struck with satin proof dies. So, something like "1893 Columbian Half Dollar VAM-1H", wherein the VAM-1H refers to the coin having an obverse proof die.

 

Put another way, is there a VAM-1H equivalent for the circulation strike Columbian half series that were struck using proof dies?

 

Note that obviously VAM-1H may not specifically be the correct designation depending on how the numbering system gets used; I'm merely using VAM-1H as a variety designation example.

[DWLange]

As with the Columbian Half, NGC will certify only actual proofs of the 1921 dollar as being anything other than a normal currency coin. The reuse of retired proof dies is common enough that it doesn't merit a designation as such. Only the Type B reverse dies of the Washington Quarter and the Type 2 reverse dies of the Franklin Half are distinguished by NGC when found on currency strikes.

[physics-fan3.14]

The easy answer, Tempus, is that the proof-die-used-on-a-business-strike is not a widely recognized, collected, or popular variety. You and I know that it exists, but usually in order to be designated on an NGC label, it has to be widely collected or popular. The Type 2 and Type B that Dave mentions are great examples. VAMs are also widely popularized and collected. Varieties of Columbian halves are not.... 

If you look at 19th century coins, there are a large number of business strikes that were struck from proof dies. As a collector of prooflike coinage, this is a fascinating and bountiful area of study for me. 

[Tempvs Fvgit]

On 3/12/2018 at 11:00 AM, DWLange said:

As with the Columbian Half, NGC will certify only actual proofs of the 1921 dollar as being anything other than a normal currency coin. The reuse of retired proof dies is common enough that it doesn't merit a designation as such. Only the Type B reverse dies of the Washington Quarter and the Type 2 reverse dies of the Franklin Half are distinguished by NGC when found on currency strikes.

 

On 3/12/2018 at 3:43 PM, physics-fan3.14 said:

The easy answer, Tempus, is that the proof-die-used-on-a-business-strike is not a widely recognized, collected, or popular variety. You and I know that it exists, but usually in order to be designated on an NGC label, it has to be widely collected or popular. The Type 2 and Type B that Dave mentions are great examples. VAMs are also widely popularized and collected. Varieties of Columbian halves are not.... 

If you look at 19th century coins, there are a large number of business strikes that were struck from proof dies. As a collector of prooflike coinage, this is a fascinating and bountiful area of study for me. 

That's a really good rule of thumb to follow.

So, it sounds like it's still possible to have such varieties created in the future, especially if CONECA or Wexler decide to assign them varieties.

In the meantime, I'll just be collecting these varieties, whatever may come of it! Thanks again!