1886 S Morgan VAM 1A & 1B?

[woodyq]

I'm kind of new at Morgan Dollars, but got some coins from my father, and was trying to get some values by looking at sold items on E-bay.  He's got a few old silver coins, and one is an 1886 S Morgan silver dollar.  When I looked it up I discovered a VAM coin on there that was selling for considerably more than the others.  I did some research, and figured out what "VAM" is, and looked at the website where I found photos of 1886 S VAM 1A, and 1B.  (see photos)  VAM 1A is the horizontal lines in the loop of the 6.  VAM 1B is on the reverse, and described on the website  as: "Die Chip at bottom inside of O in OF"  I have a loupe to magnify my vision, but not to magnify photos, so I can't post any here, but I can see that my Dad's coin actually has both of these variations.  It's an ungraded coin, and while tarnished to some extent over the years, it's clearly completely uncirculated, with minimal bag marks.

What's interesting about E-bay is that they show similar listings to what you're looking at, and they had several graded coins listed that showed "lines in 6" right there in the grading block.  However, when you zoom in on the photos you could clearly see there were no lines in the loop of the 6, and no "Die Chip at bottom inside of O in OF".  So, my question's are...  What's up with that?  Why are there graded coins clearly stating it's a variation, when there's no variation?

Also, does the variation make it more valuable?  `Would getting it graded increase the value when the graders are calling something "lines in 6" when it clearly has no lines?

[Davids5104]

add a link to the ebay coins in question so we can take a look.  thanks.  you have done a lot of research so far

[MAULEMALL]

a couple thoughts.. Is it a hot 50? No.  Is it a top 100 on the VAM list? The only one I know for that year is VAM 2, S/S... That carries a premium  but I wouldn't think that much... so no your VAM while interesting is not considered as sought after. Someone may pay extra for it but as always ,it comes down to the coin.

[woodyq]

Here's the link to the one that looks like mine.  https://www.ebay.com/itm/1886-S-Lines-in-6-PCGS-MS65-SECURE-Silver-MORGAN-Dollar-1-2-350-VAM-1A/202216356637?hash=item2f1508bb1d:g:yJgAAOSwNDJadjOW   It's a glossier version, but mine is just somewhat tarnished, and clearly uncirculated.

Here are links to ones for sale with what I believe is a bogus affirmation?... description? by the grading company:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1886-ANACS-MS62-VAM-1A-LINE-IN-6-DIE-2-TOP-100-MORGAN-SILVER-DOLLAR-COIN-1886/272525920336?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D50073%26meid%3D26e74d65cbd84bc7809fa89fffd9e3b7%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D202216356637%26itm%3D272525920336&_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850

and:

https://www.ebay.com/p/1886-1-Morgan-Silver-Dollar/170472438?iid=152883427761&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D50073%26meid%3D26e74d65cbd84bc7809fa89fffd9e3b7%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D202216356637%26itm%3D152883427761&_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850

On the second one there's no closeup of the 6, but you can clearly see there's no "die chip in the O in OF" in either one.

You're right, it's not on the top 100 list, so I guess there isn't much added value.  Just sort of curious why a grading company would get it wrong.

[Davids5104]

two of those are 1886 and one is an 1886-s

[Just Bob]

Looks like David hit on the answer to your question. The 1886-S VAM1a has lines (plural) in the 6, while the 1886-P has a line ( singular) in the upper part of the 6. Different coins, different varieties. 

[woodyq]

I see...  One is "line in 6" the other "lines in 6".  Obviously 2 different mints wouldn't use the same die.  I was concentrating too much on the word "line", and missed the plural.  Curious, how many different dies would be used all at the same time on a typical run in the 1880's?  Certainly it wasn't just one die they used until they thought it was worn out, and they'd exchange it for a new one?

[Just Bob]

Here is a quote from Roger Burdette,  (RWB on this forum) who wrote "Renaissance of American Coinage" and the Red Book guide to Peace Dollars, concerning the number of coins minted per die pair:

"For Morgan dollars, averages range from about 200,000 to 450,000 per pair of face dies. This depends on date/mint with New Orleans often getting fewer coins per set of dies due to improper annealing of the planchets. (FYI - Before production started in 1878, Morgan thought 50,000 per die set was the best that could be done.) Edge dies (ie: collars) lasted several million pieces except if damaged. "

The source that I checked stated that the number of dies prepared for the 1886S was unknown, but a VAM expert may be able to tell you how many were actually used. Given the number of coins minted, 750,000, the number of die pairs could be as low as two, assuming the higher figure in the above quote, to five or six, or even more.