What do Original early US gold coins look like?

[physics-fan3.14]

Or, how can you identify coins which Bill Jones would approve of? 

The idea of "originality" is extremely important for collectors of quality coins. Doug Winter recently wrote a very good article on CoinWeek discussing what original gold coins look like, and I highly encourage everyone to take a look. While he focuses on pre-1834 coins, the exact same principles apply for Liberty head or later gold as well. Original coins will always be more desirable than cleaned or stripped coins. 

Analyze these pictures and descriptions, and search out original coins! https://coinweek.com/us-coins/original-early-us-gold-coins-look-like/

And, because everyone likes to look at pictures, here's an example of a Liberty half eagle that has the gorgeous coppery patina of an original coin: 

[numisport]

Thanks for great link describing original skin. Everyone should read these words before making purchases in any venue whether it is on line or in person. I think surface preservation is to often skimmed over on many coins lightly dipped in overgraded holders.

[RWB]

The color of gold coins will vary depending on the alloy, fuel used for annealing planchets, and the whitening method in use. After the change to 10% copper alloy, the Mint's goal was called "orange gold" which was felt to be the most desirable color for coins.

[coinman1794]

This article is helpful for collectors not aware of the fact that most brilliant, shiny gold is conserved. However, there are some flaws with it, if you are extending it over to Liberty and Indian gold. First, not all original coins were "properly stored," and evenly toned. The degree of toning will depend on their exposure to the environment and factors stated by RWB. Next, with later coin types, there has simply been less time for them to turn brown.

We just began searching a large hoard of coins that were clearly taken from circulation in the 1910s and 1920s, and hidden inside a wall for many years until being discovered, accidentally, by relatives of the deceased, who were remolding the home.

Here is what the heaviest toners looked like. All were in a canvas bank bag.

 

[RWB]

By recording the date & condition distribution of the hoard, you can produce a "snapshot" of gold coin circulation during the period of accumulation. The posted samples all appear to be EF.

[SkyMan]

Attractive 1885-S.

[bsshog40]

I know what Bill Jones would approve of. I was fortunate enough for him to personally look at my only piece of old gold for me at an auction venue! I didn't hesitate to purchase it.

 

 

[rrantique]

[messydesk]

Interesting article worth keeping in mind, and not just when shopping for fathead gold, a series which my wallet precludes me from knowing. 

Perhaps even more than copper, gold is very sensitive to proper color calibration when attempting to show a good picture.

[Zebo]

On December 18, 2017 at 9:44 PM, bsshog40 said:

I know what Bill Jones would approve of. I was fortunate enough for him to personally look at my only piece of old gold for me at an auction venue! I didn't hesitate to purchase it.

 

 

Did you take the photo?  Very nice! I'll have to have one of mine photographed and see.

oh ya - love the coin

[bsshog40]

9 hours ago, Zebo said:

Did you take the photo?  Very nice! I'll have to have one of mine photographed and see.

oh ya - love the coin

Yes sir I did. And thank you! 

[CoinClocks]

I was just commissioned to make a custom clock for Monaco Rare Coins of their 1787 Brasher Doubloon.  This is a private-minted issue and arguably the most expensive U.S. Gold Coin ever made...and the earliest of U.S. Gold, by Ephraim Brasher.  A true Patriot and personal friend of George Washington.  Besides being the designer and engraver of this historic coin that shows several design elements that were carried forward when coins began to be minted by the Federal Government (eagle with shield and UNUM - E - PLURIBUS (later changed to E - PLURIBUS - UNUM)  - Brasher was also a master silversmith with many of the vintage silverware he designed carried his "EB" counterstamp.  Some of which were gifted to Martha Washington and later, some of that silver was actually used to produce some of the 1st U.S. Silver Coinage.  I love numismatic history and it was a privilege to receive the commission to design this 1 of 1 custom CoinClock for Monaco! :-)  Happy New Year to all!

[physics-fan3.14]

1 hour ago, CoinClocks said:

I was just commissioned to make a custom clock for Monaco Rare Coins of their 1787 Brasher Doubloon.  This is a private-minted issue and arguably the most expensive U.S. Gold Coin ever made...and the earliest of U.S. Gold, by Ephraim Brasher.  A true Patriot and personal friend of George Washington.  Besides being the designer and engraver of this historic coin that shows several design elements that were carried forward when coins began to be minted by the Federal Government (eagle with shield and UNUM - E - PLURIBUS (later changed to E - PLURIBUS - UNUM)  - Brasher was also a master silversmith with many of the vintage silverware he designed carried his "EB" counterstamp.  Some of which were gifted to Martha Washington and later, some of that silver was actually used to produce some of the 1st U.S. Silver Coinage.  I love numismatic history and it was a privilege to receive the commission to design this 1 of 1 custom CoinClock for Monaco! :-)  Happy New Year to all!

 

While that Brasher is a important coin, your post plays really loosely with the facts. Let's correct some of your numismyth: 

1. That doubloon's surfaces are absolutely not original (which is the point of this thread). When buying gold, this is exactly the dipped "white gold" look to avoid.

2. You can read a detailed history here: https://coins.ha.com/itm/colonials/1787-dbln-brasher-doubloon-eb-on-wing-w-5840-ms63-ngc-cac/a/1201-5100.s 

3. The devices on this coin are taken from the Great Seal of the United States, which was first used in 1782. Brasher copied these devices, but in no way did he originate them. Later Federal coinage also used the Great Seal, but that was not influenced by these doubloons. 

4. While this doubloon has been the most expensive gold coin at various points throughout it's life, this is not even close to the most valuable gold coin. It's not even the highest price for a Brasher! The Bushnell specimen sold for $7.4 million, while this one sold for $4.58 million. The 1933 St. Gauden's still has them all beat at $7.59 million (which is still a couple million less than the 1794 Dollar). 

5. The legend that Martha Washington's silver was used for the coinage has been disproven so many times that it should be a numismatic crime to repeat that ridiculous story. 

So, cool clock, but let's get the history right. 

[CoinClocks]

3 minutes ago, physics-fan3.14 said:

While that Brasher is a important coin, your post plays really loosely with the facts. Let's correct some of your numismyth: 

1. That doubloon's surfaces are absolutely not original (which is the point of this thread). When buying gold, this is exactly the dipped "white gold" look to avoid.

2. You can read a detailed history here: https://coins.ha.com/itm/colonials/1787-dbln-brasher-doubloon-eb-on-wing-w-5840-ms63-ngc-cac/a/1201-5100.s 

3. The devices on this coin are taken from the Great Seal of the United States, which was first used in 1782. Brasher copied these devices, but in no way did he originate them. Later Federal coinage also used the Great Seal, but that was not influenced by these doubloons. 

4. While this doubloon has been the most expensive gold coin at various points throughout it's life, this is not even close to the most valuable gold coin. It's not even the highest price for a Brasher! The Bushnell specimen sold for $7.4 million, while this one sold for $4.58 million. The 1933 St. Gauden's still has them all beat at $7.59 million (which is still a couple million less than the 1794 Dollar). 

5. The legend that Martha Washington's silver was used for the coinage has been disproven so many times that it should be a numismatic crime to repeat that ridiculous story. 

So, cool clock, but let's get the history right. 

I bow in the shadow of your greatness.

[RWB]

Why would Monaco drill a hole in the coin for the rod to the hands?

 

[CharlotteDude]

That is a gorgeous 1885-S HE with lovely, original color.  It's what I would expect a mint-state early U.S. gold coin would look like.  Of course, as you move into the circulated grades, the factor of originality can take several forms... depending on the "life" the coin had.  Whether it be careful sanctuary in a collector's cabinet, or just honest, hard-working circulation.  Here are a few examples from my early gold collection -

 

[physics-fan3.14]

Always a pleasure to see coins from your collection, Charlotte Dude! Those are fantastic. 

[bsshog40]

7 minutes ago, physics-fan3.14 said:

Always a pleasure to see coins from your collection, Charlotte Dude! Those are fantastic. 

Ditto!

[Nutmeg Coin]

Original vs. cleaned is like night and day in terms of the "aura" of the coin.  It is pretty tragic that so many of the old holders and original coins were ruined for a few points.  

[CoinClocks]

On 1/2/2018 at 4:15 PM, RWB said:

Why would Monaco drill a hole in the coin for the rod to the hands?

 

You really ARE a "newbie" aren't you?  LMAO

[bsshog40]

3 minutes ago, CoinClocks said:

You really ARE a "newbie" aren't you?  LMAO

I have to say that RWB is far from a Newbie. Not sure if your sarcasm is going to get you in good graces on this forum. I would also think that your advertising for your clocks would be best suited in the marketplace. 

[CoinClocks]

11 minutes ago, bsshog40 said:

I have to say that RWB is far from a Newbie. Not sure if your sarcasm is going to get you in good graces on this forum. I would also think that your advertising for your clocks would be best suited in the marketplace. 

His remark of my 'drilling holes' in coins - was the reason for my reply.  Reminds me of when I sold my clocks on ebay many years ago.  I was amazed at the amount of ridiculousness of people sincerely asking me why I would hole such rare coins.  #1.  If they were real - my clocks would be REALLY SMALL and #2.  What about being a print don't people understand?  Is that an attempt at humor?  It's a 'joke' I've heard only 1000 times.  So to repeat - for someone to ask me that, I would say back 'who's the newbie?'  And thanks for your suggestion but I'm not selling.  I'm showing.  If people contact me and have questions - I'll go into sales mode.  This is a U.S. Coins forum.  My products are of U.S. Coins.  So, can't we all just get along?  Why the discord?  I'm just trying to be friendly here and show you folks these you wouldn't ever see otherwise.  What's wrong with that?  

[bsshog40]

6 minutes ago, CoinClocks said:

His remark of my 'drilling holes' in coins - was the reason for my reply.  Reminds me of when I sold my clocks on ebay many years ago.  I was amazed at the amount of ridiculousness of people sincerely asking me why I would hole such rare coins.  #1.  If they were real - my clocks would be REALLY SMALL and #2.  What about being a print don't people understand?  Is that an attempt at humor?  It's a 'joke' I've heard only 1000 times.  So to repeat - for someone to ask me that, I would say back 'who's the newbie?'  And thanks for your suggestion but I'm not selling.  I'm showing.  If people contact me and have questions - I'll go into sales mode.  This is a U.S. Coins forum.  My products are of U.S. Coins.  So, can't we all just get along?  Why the discord?  I'm just trying to be friendly here and show you folks these you wouldn't ever see otherwise.  What's wrong with that?  

That's fine! Nothing wrong with humor. If you're tired of the same joke, then just let it slide. No sarcasm is needed. Most members here, have been here for years and have a lot of respect from other members. Roger (RWB) is very knowledgeable and contributes greatly to this forum. Why can't we all just respect each other? Btw, I think your clocks look nice but I would also think that a separate thread would get them looked at more instead of throwing them in others threads. The "Numismatics General" forum would be the appropriate place as these are not US Coins, but numismatic clocks. No Discord in my comment, just helpful advice. Take care my friend!

[CoinClocks]

15 hours ago, bsshog40 said:

That's fine! Nothing wrong with humor. If you're tired of the same joke, then just let it slide. No sarcasm is needed. Most members here, have been here for years and have a lot of respect from other members. Roger (RWB) is very knowledgeable and contributes greatly to this forum. Why can't we all just respect each other? Btw, I think your clocks look nice but I would also think that a separate thread would get them looked at more instead of throwing them in others threads. The "Numismatics General" forum would be the appropriate place as these are not US Coins, but numismatic clocks. No Discord in my comment, just helpful advice. Take care my friend!

I can certainly appreciate what you're saying.  I will take it to heart!  Question:  Would you also consider my clocks 'exonumia?'  

 

[physics-fan3.14]

5 hours ago, CoinClocks said:

Would you also consider my clocks 'exonumia?'  

 

No, not according to my understanding of exonumia. See here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exonumia

Your clocks might be considered "related collectibles." 

Now, let's get back to discussing original early gold. The clocks can go to another thread. 

Here is another beautiful, original piece of 19th century gold: 

 

[physics-fan3.14]

And the reverse in a separate post, because this board software is broken: 

[Just Bob]

[CoinClocks]

6 hours ago, physics-fan3.14 said:

No, not according to my understanding of exonumia. See here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exonumia

Your clocks might be considered "related collectibles." 

Now, let's get back to discussing original early gold. The clocks can go to another thread. 

Here is another beautiful, original piece of 19th century gold: 

 

Is that an 1886 Type III Indian Princess $1?

[Makesnocents]

2 hours ago, CoinClocks said:

Is that an 1886 Type III Indian Princess $1?

I'm no coin expert but would guess 1880 

[RWB]

Nice gold dollar.

 

I remember Dave Bowers selling  a bunch of proof dollars ("glittering little gems" he called them) for about $395 each back when he and Terry Hathaway were partners. Wished I could buy them then, and wish I could afford them now.