Early MS-70 American Silver Eagles

[Tyrock]

In a Sept 2017 issue of NN Skip Fazzari had an article in which he said that sending your early silver AE coins in for grading could result in getting an MS-70 grade if you carefully selected them for grading. A look at the NGC price guide shows that AEs from 1986 through 2000 carry significant price tags in MS-70. Fazzari's idea is to come up with an MS-70, sell it and put the money into a "vintage coin with a past track record of slow and steady growth." Not a bad idea. I asked two local, prominent dealers what they thought. The first one said that he considers them to be just bullion and the second one said that with recent changes in the greysheet pricing of modern coins, he'd never pay anywhere near the NGC price guide listings for an early MS-70 NGC Eagle.  As for me, I don't have any idea if the early MS-70 AEs have sold for anywhere near the NGC price guide levels. Any comments would be welcome.    

[Six Mile Rick]

Tyrock,

 Yes --- The early dates in 70 grade do sell for some good money. Try and get a couple with raw submissions --- 20 years old or older in mint packaging --- Probably toned by now --- No Chance!! 

Good Luck!

Rick

[Six Mile Rick]

On the other hand ---- I have 1 roll of 2000 MS Eagles and 1 roll of 2001 MS Eagles ---- Ya Interested 

[Conder101]

One reason the early MS-70 ASE's is so high was because

One, the coins were just considered to be so much bullion by the mint and no special care was taken in production or handling so 70's were produced at a MUCH lower percentage compared to mintage than they are today.

Two, there was no special interest in super high grade coins back then so the coins were handled and treated by collectors and dealers as just so much bullion.  So many of the small number of 70's that did exist were damaged so they would no longer grade at that level.

Three, the TPG's weren't  giving out 70's back then so once again there was no great rush to grade the coins.  Many of the coins that get 70 today would not have gotten that grade in the early years..

[numisport]

Save your money for legitimate numismatic material.

[physics-fan3.14]

If you can get lucky, then go for it, I guess. Not something I would be interested in spending time on, because I'd be bored to death staring at Eagles all day.... 

The prices for early 70's are high because the pops are low. The pops are low because they are hard to find. I'm guessing most of what's out there has been pretty well picked over in the last 30 years, so you'll have to spend a pretty good amount of time searching to get a 70. And, even if you do find a premium coin, there's no guarantee it'll make it - a 69 is more likely, and that's just not worth it. 

So, if that's what sinks your battleship, have fun. I just wouldn't approach it as a long-term viable business model. 

[numisport]

How can there be any 70's if they were stacked in rolls and shipped. I've seen a couple in 70 holders and they are not MS 70 if I can see friction on high spots. Were there any handled individually ?

[Conder101]

21 hours ago, numisport said:

Were there any handled individually ?

None of the bullion pieces. (Burnished and proofs yes, bullion no.)

[delta]

If you already have intact rolls or boxes of early silver eagles purchased about when issued, you should definitely scrutinize them carefully for possible 70s, and submit the best candidates to NGC.  The limitations are the quality of the materials and your grading ability.  However, don't realistically expect to find any 70s in those you've newly obtained, because they will almost certainly have been checked by previous owners.  If you're fortunate enough to get any 70s, you can definitely get close to the price guide amounts for them by submitting to auction at such reputable places as Great Collections.

[coinman_23885]

On 11/10/2017 at 6:46 PM, Six Mile Rick said:

Tyrock,

 Yes --- The early dates in 70 grade do sell for some good money. Try and get a couple with raw submissions --- 20 years old or older in mint packaging --- Probably toned by now --- No Chance!! 

Good Luck!

Rick

In theory, if you used a very dilute solution and a light dip, wouldn't the coins still grade MS70?  

[numisport]

On ‎11‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 10:50 PM, coinman_23885 said:

In theory, if you used a very dilute solution and a light dip, wouldn't the coins still grade MS70?  

What if a dip was used that would 'add' silver to cover up the roll friction and stand a better chance at 70 ?

[coinman_23885]

9 hours ago, numisport said:

What if a dip was used that would 'add' silver to cover up the roll friction and stand a better chance at 70 ?

I don't think it would work if you tried to effectively silver plate the coin.  The flow lines which create luster are created during striking process and would be obscured.

[ldhair]

I agree with Skip but as he said, you have to be able to know what to send in. Not easy.

[WoodenJefferson]

Anecdotal post:

I remember one time Robert Chambers of Coin Vault fame, offering the entire set of MS-70 Silver Eagles for $36K  This was back in 2000-2002 hindsight proved him right. If I'm not mistaken, it also include the 1996-W which would have been a steal. He claimed they had 2 sets available.

[Six Mile Rick]

On 11/30/2017 at 10:50 PM, coinman_23885 said:

In theory, if you used a very dilute solution and a light dip, wouldn't the coins still grade MS70?  

Yes. ---- E-Z-EST would do the trick.

However finding the perfect 70's in rolls that have been moved around so many years will be tough. Remember that Silver Eagle tubes are not tight and there is almost enough space to add another coin in the tube of 20. It would only take one search in the past or a look through and return to damage every coin in each tube when they were handled and replaced. One tiny bump and the perfect 70 fields are gone forever.

 It is worth the time to search through them for sure. I did a MS Modern Commemorative search last year of 200 or so 80's - 90's pieces. Ended up sending in 40 that I liked and got 3 MS70's. I sold the MS70 1989-D Congress and it more than covered all submission fees for the cluster.

[Six Mile Rick]

As far as selling these sweet silvers. I sold a few Silver Eagle sets around 2010 for around 80% NGC list value.

[coinman_23885]

On 12/3/2017 at 6:52 AM, Six Mile Rick said:

As far as selling these sweet silvers. I sold a few Silver Eagle sets around 2010 for around 80% NGC list value.

I've always been impressed by your ability to sell moderns at or near full retail.  You should seriously consider opening a dealership.

[Six Mile Rick]

Thanks coinman_23885 !! 

 A good sale takes one important ingredient ----- a great buyer!! My latest sale was ft dimes last month. Looks like full torch dime NGC submissions will be headed out soon!! My buyers guide my collecting as well as their own. I can't afford so many submissions without the back-up of the buyers wants and needs.

Here's Thanks to all of my buyers in the past and future!!  

Rick

[The Mighty Duke]

Just last night, a '91 PCGS MS70 fetched a hammer price of $3,400 on Great Collections

[bluegrassriver]

This is a very interesting topic needs to be bumped or many will miss it.  I would have not known some collectors think a modern bullion coin mass produced is worth that much more because of a subjective opinion.  We see examples of 69s that should be 70s and vice versa so it is very interesting

[numisport]

A PCGS cult follower (or a dealer representing same) likely bought that coin and I submit that a comparable NGC 70 coin may sell for half that price or less. Don't forget that hundreds of thousands of these lay in rolls never touched or opened. So knowing that none are really perfect wouldn't it make more sense to build a set of hand picked MS 69 coins for about 35 bucks a piece ? I guess its just me.