• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Tracked auction lots

6 posts in this topic

Tracked 14 lots at recent Heritage auction. Lots were proof Buffalos, high grade Kennedys, 1892 medal and 2 silver ingots. Prices realized after premiums were about what I would pay retail money for. After the sale 11 of 14 lots were marked 'make offer to owner'. So I would like to know what advantage there is to bidding at this auction when I know I'm bidding against dealers (or the house) and stand little chance of winning a bid without overpaying. I would rather hand pick these coins from dealers that usually present better images that show more color and more like what the coin really looks like in hand. I'm sure there are many collectors like me who have given up on auctions and would like to get in at a reasonable level but many times are stepped on by extra middle men (or women) in the game. Imagine what newcomers would think after bidding on highly anticipated material only to find out they never really stood a chance anyway. I compare this to offering a doggy treat and pulling it back (every bid) until Fido finally leaps to grab it only to find out it doesn't taste that good after all. So yes I know it is sometimes easier for dealers to let Heritage do the marketing for them but come on.... that's what web sites are for. Maybe the whole reason these coins are at auction is because they don't stand on their own merits. Is that it ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, numisport said:

Tracked 14 lots at recent Heritage auction. Lots were proof Buffalos, high grade Kennedys, 1892 medal and 2 silver ingots. Prices realized after premiums were about what I would pay retail money for. After the sale 11 of 14 lots were marked 'make offer to owner'. So I would like to know what advantage there is to bidding at this auction when I know I'm bidding against dealers (or the house) and stand little chance of winning a bid without overpaying. I would rather hand pick these coins from dealers that usually present better images that show more color and more like what the coin really looks like in hand. I'm sure there are many collectors like me who have given up on auctions and would like to get in at a reasonable level but many times are stepped on by extra middle men (or women) in the game. Imagine what newcomers would think after bidding on highly anticipated material only to find out they never really stood a chance anyway. I compare this to offering a doggy treat and pulling it back (every bid) until Fido finally leaps to grab it only to find out it doesn't taste that good after all. So yes I know it is sometimes easier for dealers to let Heritage do the marketing for them but come on.... that's what web sites are for. Maybe the whole reason these coins are at auction is because they don't stand on their own merits. Is that it ?

I sometimes win bargains - sometimes I lose. Set your prices and be satisfied with the outcome.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know how often dealers use this Heritage feature.  On occasion, I have seen coins I bid on or tracked offered on eBay.  Regardless, what both have in common is the prices are excessive and the coins sit unsold for months.

I know Heritage charges the buyer's fee.  I don't know if they also charge one for the seller.  If both, I presume this partly accounts for the proportionately much higher price versus the auction.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A couple of thoughts.  I'm not sure but I believe the "Make an offer" listing is something you have to opt out of otherwise it gets listed even if it isn't for sale.  This is an advantage for heritage because after collecting buyer and seller fees in the auction , if it is sold again via the make an offer they collect yet another fee.

If you are seeing the coins sold for what you consider full retail and they are being bought by dealers and then successfully resold, you may be underestimating what the true retail value actually is.  Dealers that buy at full retail at auction and then can't sell or eventually have to sell at a loss don't keep it up for long.  If the dealer buys it, he probably already has a pretty good idea of who he is going to sell it to.  Also a lot of dealers are probably acting as agents for other collectors that are willing to pay that retail price and the coin is going into a collection and is not for sale.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

These are good thoughts. I try to look at this from dealers' standpoint but cannot fully grasp the ideas - I'm not a dealer. I have learned that whatever source you use to chase nicer coins, it usually takes retail money (but not always).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, numisport said:

These are good thoughts. I try to look at this from dealers' standpoint but cannot fully grasp the ideas - I'm not a dealer. I have learned that whatever source you use to chase nicer coins, it usually takes retail money (but not always).

Outside of specialization (die varieties and such), I would think so because the number of potential buyers (mostly collectors but not always) are large enough where it I wouldn't think it happens often.

For world coinage, a lot less often.  First, some coins are sold where the prospective collector isn't aware of the sale.  For example, I bought the 1752 Peru NGC XF-40 2R from a Swiss auction in 2015 which isn't where this type of coin usually sells.  Second, many coins still sell ungraded since non-US collectors generally dislike TPG.  This is decreasing versus the past.  I don't believe it's because foreign collectors necessarily like TPG more, they just don't want to leave money "on the table" and know that US buyers who have an outsized influence prefer it.

As for the Heritage "Make an offer" feature, I don't know how coins get tagged, absent specifically requesting it.  I once received an offer on the 1770 Peru PCGS AU-58 2R but never either opted in or out.  I ignored it because I both wanted to keep the coin but also because the net would have been about what I paid.  Because of the fees, only "stupid money" offers would ever get me to sell any coin I own which I really want to keep.  With this coin, I have never seen another decent one anywhere, not even listed in prominent collections such as Bonham's 1996 Patterson catalog.

Link to comment
Share on other sites