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1959 Double Struck Benjamin Franklin 50c coin

33 posts in this topic

We've been given this coin as a gift, we live in the UK and have been advised that we need this coin graded in America.  Can anyone please let me know how I go about this please?  Keep going round in circles trying to find this out, any help would be appreciated.

18987787_10212116289038208_882819216_o.jpg

american coin face side up.jpg

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First off, that is a very unusual double strike, meaning it's not like the double strikes normally released by the US Mint.

There are some NGC certified dealers in Germany that can assist you in submitting coins for certification. I hope someone here can point you in the right direction.

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Mr. Weinberg is an expert in error coins and can give you a reliable opinion about the coin and its value. NGC can authenticate the coin and then give you an opinion as to its "grade" or state of preservation.

(Authentication is the important part.)

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51 minutes ago, RWB said:

 

(Authentication is the important part.)

I have yet to see a 'double struck' coin where the second strike does not completely obliterate the first strike...maybe this is the first one? (shrug)

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this NEEDS to be Certified; we were privy to a pile of fake 1964 double struck coins: the coins were Genuine, but the overstrike was not. The absence of "rims" on the overstrike is troubling

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I STRONGLY suspect that the OP's coin is a fake. It does not look like a genuine double strike. 

Compare to the double-strikes listed for sale on Weinbergs site: http://www.fredweinberg.com/product-category/error-types/double-strikes/

16 hours ago, WoodenJefferson said:

I have yet to see a 'double struck' coin where the second strike does not completely obliterate the first strike...maybe this is the first one? (shrug)

You will sometimes see traces of the understrike, but not this strongly. There will also usually be a clear line where the rim is. I would not expect the "D" mintmark to appear so prominently and clearly on a genuine double strike. 

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22 hours ago, WoodenJefferson said:

I have yet to see a 'double struck' coin where the second strike does not completely obliterate the first strike...maybe this is the first one? (shrug)

You need to look at some more double strikes.  Yes typically the details of the first strike are wiped out in the field areas of the second strike, but they will often still show in the device areas and that is what is showing on this coin.

 

5 hours ago, physics-fan3.14 said:

There will also usually be a clear line where the rim is.

This is true but it isn't always there and would not be if the collar has malfunctioned and isn't in place for the second strike.

5 hours ago, physics-fan3.14 said:

I would not expect the "D" mintmark to appear so prominently and clearly on a genuine double strike. 

Notice where the D mintmark is.  In the highest relief portion of the bell on the second strike.  About the last place that fills in the Franklin half design (hence why there are so relatively few FBL's)  It hasn't filled, so the mintmark was not wiped out and remains prominent. Notice the ATES above it.  It is in a lower relief are and it is being wiped out.

The lack of collar/rim markings is a little disturbing, but I don't see anything that jumps out at me and says it is a fake.

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13 minutes ago, Conder101 said:

The lack of collar/rim markings is a little disturbing, but I don't see anything that jumps out at me and says it is a fake.

on BOTH sides, though, it's too much of a coincidence

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thanks  my partner got the coin on the day she was born from  the first security bank Glasgow Montana  with her birth certificate  her mother had  kept in a box and gave it to her last year. We are not coin collectors or have had any dealings with coins before all we have done is browsed the error coin sites and have not seen a coin  like ours at all does that make it collectable ? 

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43 minutes ago, have not got one said:

if its a fake how come mr fred wienberg has offered us 8800 dollars as it is either way we just wont to know

If he actually made that offer, take the money and run. That is significantly more than that coin is worth (even if it may be genuine). Weinberg will get it slabbed himself. 

And if you really want to submit it, the postal service will deliver your coin internationally - just join with NGC and ship it to the US. No special requirements (and if you need any assistance, just call NGC and they'll help you with anything you need). 

4 minutes ago, have not got one said:

thanks  my partner got the coin on the day she was born from  the first security bank Glasgow Montana  with her birth certificate  her mother had  kept in a box and gave it to her last year. We are not coin collectors or have had any dealings with coins before all we have done is browsed the error coin sites and have not seen a coin  like ours at all does that make it collectable ? 

Double struck coins are not common, but they are seen occasionally. Heritage Auctions (one of the largest coin auction houses in the world) has 1500 of them listed in their archives: https://coins.ha.com/c/search-results.zx?Ntk=SI_Titles-Desc&Ne=304&N=790+231+3183+330&Ntt=double+struck&expand=Coin+Category&ic4=Refine-CoinCategory-102615#expand-304

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If Fred offered $8800, I would take it and skip the time/risk and bother of doing anything else.

 

a somewhat similar quarter sold at Heritage -.

https://coins.ha.com/itm/errors/1959-washington-quarter-double-struck-second-strike-60-off-center-ms63-pcgs/a/1181-5126.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515

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i am very greatfull for all your opionions if I sell to mr wienberg I will never know its true value he is going to sell it on at double or treble the price and if it goes to auction lets face it who knows what I would like to know is how do u get to the collectors is there a forum similar to this I am determined its true value thanks again alan

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3 hours ago, have not got one said:

i am very greatfull for all your opionions if I sell to mr wienberg I will never know its true value he is going to sell it on at double or treble the price and if it goes to auction lets face it who knows what I would like to know is how do u get to the collectors is there a forum similar to this I am determined its true value thanks again alan

fwiw: I've known Fred for years... if YOU think you can get more for it, then you must have a customer for it. Haha and Good Luck with that. And don't think for one minute that "deals" between prospective bidders on auction items aren't made before sale time. Think things through... it is NOT a "mainstream" coin, but appeals to a Very Specialized Market. And by that I mean, it's not Everyone's Cuppa Tea. Bears and Bulls make money, Pigs go to slaughter-so to speak.

Oh and by-the-way: it's in Poor Taste to publically make known the Made-in-Faith offer of a Respected Dealer. That's one way to kill it, and that's probably the Best Money you will ever see for this. IF you decide to put it in auction, and Reserve the sale price to that of the Offer, and it falls short: you will be on the hook for the Buyer Premium, currently 17.5%. So, for sake of argument: let's say the buyer would offer it to his client for 10K. You put it in auction with an 8800.00 reserve. The dealer who made the offer won't buy it for that; neither will his client  as the cost is higher to him at 8800.00 + 17.5% 

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8 hours ago, e1cnr said:

If Fred offered $8800, I would take it and skip the time/risk and bother of doing anything else.

 

a somewhat similar quarter sold at Heritage -.

https://coins.ha.com/itm/errors/1959-washington-quarter-double-struck-second-strike-60-off-center-ms63-pcgs/a/1181-5126.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515

Hmmm.... notice how that coin has all the characteristics of a genuine double-strike (conspicuously lacking from the OP's coin), and sold for a quarter of the supposed offer they got? 

Something fishy here. 

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Yes sell that coin right away as there is a very limited market for this material. If by chance it is genuine keep in mind it is a mistake. It's a strange token to celebrate a birth don't you think ?

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On ‎7‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 0:09 AM, have not got one said:

i am very greatfull for all your opionions if I sell to mr wienberg I will never know its true value he is going to sell it on at double or treble the price and if it goes to auction lets face it who knows what I would like to know is how do u get to the collectors is there a forum similar to this I am determined its true value thanks again alan

You will never know the 'true value', as that is not how any collectible market works. I guess you could get it certified and list on eBay for $25K and drop it 0.1% every time listed until sold...  and then take away the 13% ebay/paypal/shipping  or consign to Heritage and take away the buyers and sellers premium from total collected.

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4 hours ago, e1cnr said:

You will never know the 'true value', as that is not how any collectible market works. I guess you could get it certified and list on eBay for $25K and drop it 0.1% every time listed until sold...  and then take away the 13% ebay/paypal/shipping  or consign to Heritage and take away the buyers and sellers premium from total collected.

yuh... that doesn't always work
I suspect that Fred and Associates know by now that his offer has been publically broadcast

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On ‎7‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 7:02 AM, allmine said:

well, to play Devil's Advocate: Franklin errors are much scarcer than their silver Washington counterparts: a scant 15 year mintage frame, with millions less minted

Here is a walking liberty half that got more

https://coins.ha.com/itm/errors/1945-s-50c-walking-liberty-half-dollar-double-struck-second-strike-55-off-center-ms63-pcgs/a/1191-3797.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515

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