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Are Spots/Spills relevant while grading ?

Started by Joydeep,

12 posts in this topic

Joydeep

Joydeep

Posted
Posted

Are spots relevant at all to grading ? I mean how do grading companies guarantee that the spot has not been put there to hide some sort of blemish intentionally ? The Following coin has a grade of Pf 70 UC:

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

Posted
Posted

Why would anyone apply a spot there to "hide some sort of blemish intentionally"? Do you really think the "blemish" would look worse than the spot that would be hiding it? Regardless, I am extremely confident that the spot was not there at the time the coin was graded 70.

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BillJones

BillJones

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Posted

There is no way that coin could have been called a PR-70 when those spots were on it. Spots do matter, and they matter a great deal with the highest grades. At this point I would call that coin a Proof with environmental dmage.

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DWLange

DWLange

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  • Member: Seasoned Veteran
Posted

There was evidently some invisible particle that became activated after encapsulation. NGC guarantees its grade on such coins, so it should be returned to NGC for Appearance Review. There is no charge for this service. If the coin can't be conserved successfully, it will simply be replaced with another of the same grade. Fortunately, this is not a rare coin for which another can't be located.

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Conder101

Conder101

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, DWLange said:

NGC guarantees its grade on such coins, so it should be returned to NGC for Appearance Review.

That's not what the guarantee says

 

  1. Deterioration of Certain Coins. The NGC Guarantee does not apply to certain Coins where the appearance of the Coin changes over time (deterioration) and such change is responsible for the claimed discrepancy between the assigned grade and the coin’s actual grade. NGC shall make the sole reasonable determination as to whether this deterioration has occurred. The following specific parameters apply:
    1. In certain Coins, natural environmental deterioration may cause undesired features to appear, such as (but not limited to) spotting, hazing, PVC and corrosion. Spots, for example, can occur on modern silver Coins as a result of the minting process or other natural conditions over which NGC has no control. Therefore, the NGC Guarantee does not apply to Coins exhibiting any of these issues.
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RWB

RWB

Posted
Posted

The spot is from surface contamination before the coin was encapsulated. Impossible to determine when that occurred.

From the spot's appearance, it has probably corroded the surface and the coin is ruined as a collectable item.

Follow Mr. Lange's advice.

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coinman1794

coinman1794

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, Conder101 said:

That's not what the guarantee says

 

  1. Deterioration of Certain Coins. The NGC Guarantee does not apply to certain Coins where the appearance of the Coin changes over time (deterioration) and such change is responsible for the claimed discrepancy between the assigned grade and the coin’s actual grade. NGC shall make the sole reasonable determination as to whether this deterioration has occurred. The following specific parameters apply:
    1. In certain Coins, natural environmental deterioration may cause undesired features to appear, such as (but not limited to) spotting, hazing, PVC and corrosion. Spots, for example, can occur on modern silver Coins as a result of the minting process or other natural conditions over which NGC has no control. Therefore, the NGC Guarantee does not apply to Coins exhibiting any of these issues.

The key here is: "NGC shall make the sole reasonable determination as to whether this deterioration has occurred." Certain environmental factors are out of their control, but they can make an attempt at correcting the problem if they think that is possible.

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Joydeep

Joydeep

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On 5/24/2017 at 8:02 AM, BillJones said:

There is no way that coin could have been called a PR-70 when those spots were on it.

I thought so too. By the way I had no idea regarding grading policies of NGC (or any other company for that matter) in case of spots like this. Thanks for the quick responses everyone.

Anyway, I have the slab and the spot looks kind of artificial to me. It is slightly greenish with a darker center. What do you guys think it is & what might have caused it ? Has anyone come across anything similar ? 

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, joydeep said:

I thought so too. By the way I had no idea regarding grading policies of NGC (or any other company for that matter) in case of spots like this. Thanks for the quick responses everyone.

Anyway, I have the slab and the spot looks kind of artificial to me. It is slightly greenish with a darker center. What do you guys think it is & what might have caused it ? Has anyone come across anything similar ? 

It merely appears to be surface contamination - nothing intentional. 

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Conder101

Conder101

Posted
Posted
18 hours ago, coinman1794 said:

The key here is: "NGC shall make the sole reasonable determination as to whether this deterioration has occurred."

Yes, they will decide whether or not the spot was there when it graded as a 70.  (I'm guessing they will decide it wasn't.)

 

18 hours ago, coinman1794 said:

Certain environmental factors are out of their control, but they can make an attempt at correcting the problem if they think that is possible.

Yes BUT

18 hours ago, coinman1794 said:

Spots, for example, can occur on modern silver Coins as a result of the minting process or other natural conditions over which NGC has no control. Therefore, the NGC Guarantee does not apply to Coins exhibiting any of these issues.

I'm sure the thing that cause the spot was outside of their control, and they may be willing to try and fix it, but the guarantee does state that the guarantee does not apply in these cases.  Will they choose to cover it under the guarantee?  Probably, good PR.  Kind of like how for the first twenty years neather of the top two TPG's guarantees specifically covered authenticity, but they ALWAYS stood behind their opinions and made good on any fakes that did get past them.

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coinman1794

coinman1794

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Posted

My experience over the course of 16 years submitting to NGC is that they will make every attempt to correct a surface problem so that they do not have to pay out unnecessarily. There are times where nothing can be done, and they will by it back. There would have to be some signs of obvious mishandling or tampering for them to refuse.

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Insider

Insider

Posted
Posted

My experience with NGC is they will take the coin back and try to fix it.  There will probably be a tiny mark left that they cannot remove completely.   What I saw done by a second tier grading company for an inexpensive coin like this was to replace the coin yet say they "fixed" it...LOL.   NGC is more reputable than that!

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