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2017 Congratulations Set - Who's In?

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On April 4th 2017, the 2017 Congratulation Set will include a 2017 American Proof Silver Eagle designated with an 'S' mint mark: "First time in doing so with an 'S'. However, the 'S' mint mark has been produced in earlier versions. In the U.S. Mint stating the 'first time ever' for the 'S' mint mark is somewhat deceiving. Why did not the U.S. Mint present a set with all A.S.E.'s: W, S, and Burnished. Most likely, the returns may be far greater with the items being sold separately. What may be the thoughts of others regarding the current year's release of the A.S.E.'s and what may be ahead in future releases?      2c

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The boards appear to be dead. Why do you believe that the Mint would not include the 'S' in a set, even with the burnished? Could this be the beginning of 'surprises' each year so as to purchase separately would render more revenue to the U.S. Mint/

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Why not add "VDB" to the silver and also have them painted in pretty colors by the population of Kansas? They could also have them tossed in the air by basketball players or rubbed with sweaty pro football jerseys.

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Some additional pics! Just when I thought I was out, they (U.S. Mint) pulled me back in again. A+ to the advertising section, adjoining organization and structure.

MINT 1A.png

MINT 1B.png

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Well if they don;t add the 2017 S proof to any other product it could turn out to be a winner.  Even if they do it will probably be a winner for the people that can do a quck flip on this one.  It's interesting how the Mint has done a complete turnaround.  It used to be they would be careful and go to great lengths to keep from creating a a low mintage/rarity item.  Not they do it deliberately so they can cash in too.

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How does the U.S. Mint 'cash in' when they limit sets? Would it not stand to reason that more revenue would be gained in making or producing coins? 

* Irrespective on the above, would any know how one can determine the time of purchase. I have not delved into this area at all but seeing the window was within minutes, and the 2017 Congratulations Set was the fastest sell out in history, I wished to inquire.   2c

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10 hours ago, Conder101 said:

Well if they don;t add the 2017 S proof to any other product it could turn out to be a winner.  Even if they do it will probably be a winner for the people that can do a quck flip on this one.  It's interesting how the Mint has done a complete turnaround.  It used to be they would be careful and go to great lengths to keep from creating a a low mintage/rarity item.  Not they do it deliberately so they can cash in too.

Well, they've apparently already announced that it will be available in a proof set later this year: http://www.coinweek.com/us-mint-news/2017-u-s-mint-congratulations-set-sale-april-4/

The product limit for that "congratulations set" is 75,000, which means that the proof sets will be in addition to this. I suppose that is supposed to be a "rarity," but that also means that they will be widely available to anyone who wants to buy one. 

For now, the "congratulations set" appears to marketing gimmickry. Not a single numismatic person cares about this packaging: have you ever seen any of these gimmicks available on the aftermarket? Have they ever earned a premium? The mint has been making these sets for years. 

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21 hours ago, synoptic12 said:

 

How does the U.S. Mint 'cash in' when they limit sets? Would it not stand to reason that more revenue would be gained in making or producing coins? 

 

By guaranteeing a sellout.  A no limit offering attracts a lot less interest and runs the risk of  having excess packaging and coins left over that have to be destroyed and which represents losses that offsets some of those extra sales.  Also by dividing a coin into one or more "limited" offerings they can probably create additional hype and probably sell more coins than they would have if they had just had one unlimited offering.  A lot of people got shut out on this offering and that will probably result in a higher sales figure for the special proof set they will sell later this year from people anxious not to "miss out" in the 2017 S ASE again.  It's just a game in human psychology.

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1 minute ago, Conder101 said:

By guaranteeing a sellout.  A no limit offering attracts a lot less interest and runs the risk of  having excess packaging and coins left over that have to be destroyed and which represents losses that offsets some of those extra sales.  Also by dividing a coin into one or more "limited" offerings they can probably create additional hype and probably sell more coins than they would have if they had just had one unlimited offering.  A lot of people got shut out on this offering and that will probably result in a higher sales figure for the special proof set they will sell later this year from people anxious not to "miss out" in the 2017 S ASE again.  It's just a game in human psychology.

Your preface regarding 'marketing' has been mentioned by a few, whereby I can agree. Naturally, this facet to move the L.E.S.P.S. is somewhat of a wise choice but still no guarantee. Most likely, a test of the waters, so to say. However, only the 2017 'S' can be fully recognized as a first day strike and accepted by the grading services with a 'Special' label > "Not so for the 'S' packaged in the Limited Edition Silver Proof Set. This aspect could, could have a bearing as to how many may purchase. Seeing that the L.E.S.P.S. has the 'S': and most likely will remain at the 50,000 limit (For a quick sellout) [Sic] > 'As you make mention, as adjoining the preface", it very well may sell out.  We do not believe that the 'S' will be included in any other format, nor any other 'surprises' with the coin.

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On 3/31/2017 at 11:31 PM, RWB said:

Why not add "VDB" to the silver and also have them painted in pretty colors by the population of Kansas? They could also have them tossed in the air by basketball players or rubbed with sweaty pro football jerseys.

Supplementary Information:

CoinWorld - The U.S. Mint issued the following update at 10:09 a.m. ET April 5 concerning sales of the 2017 Congratulations set: "Sales attrition from cancellations, returns and credit card declinations could result in a very limited quantity being made available for sale."
 

New York, NY -- (ReleaseWire) -- 04/06/2017 --On 4th of April, the US Mint released its limited 2017 Congratulations Set containing the exclusive 2017-S Proof Silver Eagle. Having the second lowest mintage limit in the proof silver eagles' history, this astounding coin bearing the "S" mintmark is expected to become extremely collectible and is regarded as a must-have for any fan of the series.

MINT 1.png

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Contrived scarcity used to be below the mint. All of this marketing hype and nonsense to create supposed demand is one reason real collectors shun many modern mint issues.

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21 hours ago, synoptic12 said:

However, only the 2017 'S' can be fully recognized as a first day strike and accepted by the grading services with a 'Special' label > "Not so for the 'S' packaged in the Limited Edition Silver Proof Set.

Maybe, but I would not be surprised to see a special label for the LESPS  as well and and you could have first strike/early release labels for the sets as well.  So you could have a First Strike 2017 S Proof ASE LESPS dollar

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Anything is possible when money is the focal point but to classify the 2017 Limited Edition Silver Proof Set as being 'First Strike' would be a misnomer in a sense, as well as being considered an 'early release'. Naturally, this would equate to the Limited Edition Silver Proof Set specifically. This aspect would be viable but not necessarily true. Sort of a catch 22.

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When the ASE program first started, the proofs were $23 and you could get the Unc for $6 from a local shop. This is the first one I missed buying from the mint. The 95W was easy. This one is just a pain in the you know what. I may buy the silver set but don't really want the other proofs. Maybe I'll find the one coin after all the smoke clears. 

Either way, I'm ending my Silver Eagle collection and any further purchases from the mint. It's been a fun ride but I just don't wish to play their game any longer. The fun is gone. 

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I got a headline email from "Coin World" that this thing sold out in 120 seconds because it was a "limited offering." It's one more slap in the face for the mint's loyal customers who might have to work when the thing is offered and can't get one while the flippers clean up. The mint is a publicly sponsored government agency that is funded by the taxpayers. It should not be creating contrived opportunities for flippers. All of those who want a mint item should have a chance to buy it. The mint has undoubtedly heard this message many times, but the bureaucrats just ignore it.

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2 hours ago, BillJones said:

All of those who want a mint item should have a chance to buy it. The mint has undoubtedly heard this message many times, but the bureaucrats just ignore it.

And the only way to do that is unlimited mintages and accept all orders during a specific period.  The Mint has done that in the past as well, and when they do, they get nothing but complaints that they have flooded the market and ruined the aftermarket, because the coins then drop in value below issue price.

Have a limited mintage and people will do things to get extras for flipping while people get shut out and you get complaints.  No limits people that buy themhave no chance to sell for a profit and usualy see values drop below what they paid and you get complaints.

No matter what they do the collectors complain.

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The only "legitimate" modern mint pieces scarcities are are like the Jackie Robinson coins. Few people ordered them, and the "Uncirculated" $5 gold coins were "scarce" because only about 5,000 were sold. To hell with the wants of the flippers. Let them guess what is going to be good. Let the market decide that when the mint offers the coins to collectors.

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The US Mint clearly laid out well in advance the limited mintage of 75,000 coins, the lack of a household limit, the date of release, and hell even the exact second it would go on sale. I simply don't see how the US Mint can be faulted here, it was a clear limited opportunity from the start.

On top of all this, who cares if they're trying to turn a profit? We should be thankful to even have the opportunity to buy these coins, as their numismatic coins program is 100% funded by us coin collectors. so if we don't buy their products then there will be no more collectable coins period. I don't mind contributing to their profits to keep the collectable coins coming :)

 

Source: https://catalog.usmint.gov/faqs-top-questions/payment-processing-charges-pricing.html

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12 hours ago, Jacob Torres said:

The US Mint clearly laid out well in advance the limited mintage of 75,000 coins, the lack of a household limit, the date of release, and hell even the exact second it would go on sale. I simply don't see how the US Mint can be faulted here, it was a clear limited opportunity from the start.

On top of all this, who cares if they're trying to turn a profit? We should be thankful to even have the opportunity to buy these coins, as their numismatic coins program is 100% funded by us coin collectors. so if we don't buy their products then there will be no more collectable coins period. I don't mind contributing to their profits to keep the collectable coins coming :)

 

Source: https://catalog.usmint.gov/faqs-top-questions/payment-processing-charges-pricing.html

Correct and with no limit ordering the product was depleted in 22 seconds. New record by the way.

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16 hours ago, Jacob Torres said:

The US Mint clearly laid out well in advance the limited mintage of 75,000 coins, the lack of a household limit, the date of release, and hell even the exact second it would go on sale. I simply don't see how the US Mint can be faulted here, it was a clear limited opportunity from the start.

On top of all this, who cares if they're trying to turn a profit? We should be thankful to even have the opportunity to buy these coins, as their numismatic coins program is 100% funded by us coin collectors. so if we don't buy their products then there will be no more collectable coins period. I don't mind contributing to their profits to keep the collectable coins coming :)

 

Source: https://catalog.usmint.gov/faqs-top-questions/payment-processing-charges-pricing.html

The mint can be faulted for: 

1. Running a "limited release" program. This is a government issue. It should be available to all taxpayers who desire one. 

2. "turning a profit" : The government functions at the expense of the taxpayer. It does not function to turn a profit. Turning a profit is the prerogative of business in a free-market society. The Franklin mint can turn a profit. The US mint serves at the pleasure of the people. It does not function to "turn a profit." If the mint's affairs are not in the public interest, should they be funded by public funds? The Libertarian in me says no. The mint receives taxpayer dollars which are collected at gunpoint. Do you feel a gun held to your head for your taxes is worth a limited release silver bullion coin which you will never own? Nah, neither do I. 

3. "their numismatic program is funded by coin collectors": Again, that's the business of a private affair, not a government agency. 

The entire tone and scope of your post is anathema to a capitalist ideal. Do you want your government meddling in business? I don't!  

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Quote

The mint can be faulted for: 

1. Running a "limited release" program. This is a government issue. It should be available to all taxpayers who desire one.

 

 

And if they don't they get faulted for flooding the market and causing almost all of their product to almost immediately drop below issue price.

 

Quote

The mint receives taxpayer dollars which are collected at gunpoint. 

 

The mint is self funding, they do not receive taxpayer dollars.  In fact most of the profits they make are turned over to the general fund.  (In theory reducing the amount of taxes that have to be collected from the taxpayers at gunpoint.)  The mint in practice acts as a business that has a nearly 100% tax rate.

 

 

Quote

3. "their numismatic program is funded by coin collectors": Again, that's the business of a private affair, not a government agency. 

The entire tone and scope of your post is anathema to a capitalist ideal. Do you want your government meddling in business? I don't!

 

 

 

Would you rather have our coinage, including the commemoratives, executed by an outside private contractor?  And have the government pay the contractor at a loss?  And have the contractor keep all the profits on the coinage and sales?

How about so they don't make a profit on the circulating coinage, the mint would quadruple the size of all out coins so they contained their full value in metal!  At least you can be happy that they are losing money on the cents and nickels.  In fact they could quintuple the size of the coins and lose money on all of them!  Of course that would mean that the Mint WOULD have to receive tax dollars, and taxes would have to go up to cover that, and the loss of revenue that the Mint used to provide.

 

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Part ll

 

On October 5, 2017, the Limited Edition Silver Proof Set will be offered at $139.95 with the limitation of two per household. The mintage is 50,000 sets; included is the coveted 2017 American Silver Eagle ‘S’ that was originally offered in the 2017 Congratulations Set numbered at 75,000. Place the two together and the total of 2017 American Silver Eagle ‘S’ equates to 125,000; “Second lowest mintage “, as the 1995W A.S.E. being minted at 35,000 pieces.

To all the naysayers which scoffed at the original offering as being of limited value, may wish to review the totality of the A.S.E. ‘S’. The bottom line is that the price of $139.95 shall be the starting point for the 2017 American Silver Eagle ‘S’. Would any pay $139.95 for the L.E.S.P.S., and not recognize that the A.S.E. ‘S’ is the most valuable coin. In this respect, prices are surely to move upward, especially with many dealers holding  a huge amount. In my personal opinion, if the dealers were wise, they would scoop up all they could, as to set the market price. If this aspect should occur, prices for the A.S.E. ’S’ (2017) could skyrocket: ’Like the 1995W”. A game of chance which many decide to play. All the experts are most welcome to add their opinion.

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57 minutes ago, RWB said:

A simple-minded question.....Who or what is being congratulated? Why?

One of two things, the mint is congratulating themselves for their 225th anniversary, and two I believe the concept of the set was for it to be used as a gift to congratulate anyone you wished for whatever event was appropriate.  Kind of like the "Happy Birthday set" was intended to be used as a gift for someones birthday.

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