Did I buy a PCGS Counterfeit St. Gaudens MS65 (pics)?
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44 posts

Help appreciated:

1. Bought it ebay from a seller having just 70 feedbacks (100% positive)

2. Seller accepted offer for $1,490 for 1928 $20 St.Gaudens PCGS MS 65

3. Seller was rough in communication - location was Las Vegas NV.

4. But I got a shipment from Florida via firstclass mail in 2 days! (I live in AZ)

5. My name and address were spelled super wrong in the package - it made it because of street number and zip code!

6. The coin was wrapped in an empty Camel Cigarette carton!

7. Seller does not accept return, has sold 3 similar St. Gaudens MS65 (different cert numbers) in last 1 month in ebay.

8.Used Paypal and credir card so, I have hope!

9. Read through fake detection articles and this looks real or very close to real... but not sure, I am inexperienced!

 

Please help me figure if its fake or counterfeit: I have circled certain areas

Will this coin even make a MS 65?

 

c26b52a19e.jpg

 

Has a broken edge on the holder: I did draw a red line on the PCGS hologram to see its not cut straight - have circled this too - but found it in other PCGS slabs too...

c27185ee7c.jpg

 

Has dirt on the inside of the holder - I possibly cannot clean it:

c2781622f7.jpg

 

Another close up image of the side of the holder:

c27e43188c.jpg

 

Some more pics:

c2839b0896.jpg

 

c283cb7bf3.jpg

 

c283d97f4c.jpg

 

c284050039.jpg

Edited by Number200k

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1,737 posts

If that's a fake holder, then expect PCGS to be announcing a new holder at the FUN show. It looks fine to me. I probably would have passed on the coin as a 65, though. The "dirt" in the holder at the seam is probably just stress from whatever chipped it and/or a sonic welding artifact.

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My guess is that the coin is genuine.

 

It looks sub-par, however, due, largely to the scratch in the right obverse field, not the other, more minor flaws. And I certainly wouldn't have bid on it or bought it, based upon the seller's blurry images.

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I agree with the others that it is likely genuine, but overgraded.

 

Inferior coin + damaged plastic = return

 

You can force the seller's hand with a SNAD claim if necessary.

 

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I don't know if it helps but the number is good and it does not show up on the 3 numismatic crime sources I use.

 

As to grading, you have to be kidding if anybody thinks I would grade from a picture.

 

Inferior gold is still gold, though.

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11,994 posts

Ordinary baggy double eagle - MS63. Most common Saint-Gaudens DE.

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At $1490, you didn't pay solid 65 money, and I don't think you'll find solid 65s for that. If you don't like the coin, try to return it. The seller probably knew exactly what he was doing with the blurry pictures.

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397 posts

If you're looking to buy gem quality generic Saints, are you aware of the many other high-quality sources for what you're looking for?

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Looks genuine.

 

Personally; I don't like the chipped slab or the large scratch. Also, it is a low-end 65 but you didn't pay full 65 money, either.

 

I, myself, wouldn't be real happy with it but you must decide how it makes YOU feel.

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Looks authentic to me. If a 65, you paid a good price for the second most common Saint behind the 1924 and before the 1908 no motto.

 

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If I plan to keep it...

 

Can I try sending it to ngc for cross over as this is in my registy, i can also get a 50% off?

 

Or should i send it to pcgs for just replacing the slab? They won't downgrade it correct?

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I wouldn't spend the money to try to cross it over - I don't think you'd be successful and it would probably be easier to buy one in an NGC holder.

 

Why did you buy a PCGS one if you want an NGC coin for your set?

 

And I wouldn't spend the money to get it reholdered, either.

 

I'd file a dispute through EBay and try to return it.

 

Based on your questions, comments and buying that coin based on such lousy images, my unsolicited advice would be to sit on your money for a while and educate yourself about coins and the market.

Edited by MarkFeld

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So if it does not deserve MS 65, did I over pay at $1490? As MS 63s are good 300 less.

Should I return it?

 

The eBay link you gave says the purchase price was $1,775?

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So if it does not deserve MS 65, did I over pay at $1490? As MS 63s are good 300 less.

Should I return it?

 

The eBay link you gave says the purchase price was $1,775?

 

That was the listed price. In his first post he sad he paid $1490.

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Or should i send it to pcgs for just replacing the slab? They won't downgrade it correct?

They might (they do look to make sure the coin isn't obviously misgraded even for reholdering) but if it does you should be compensated for the downgrade under their guarantee.

Edited by Conder101

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I actually low balled this seller and was shocked to get accepted. I was wondering as the auction prices were around $1700+, ebay listing will ask for more than them...

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Looks genuine but if you don't like it ship it back.

 

I actually low balled this seller and was shocked to get accepted. I was wondering as the auction prices were around $1700+, ebay listing will ask for more than them...

 

Sounds like he knew it was a less-than-stellar MS65...he probably got an upgrade from a 64 and your lowball offer was a good quick profit for him.

 

jom

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So many of these have been graded that both TPG's got lazy on these. Look for CAC stickered coins and pay more money to get nice ones. Coin may be a technical 65 but there are premium 65's available if you look further.

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