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New Acquisition.

Started by Anubis63,

56 posts in this topic

thebeav

thebeav

Posted
Posted
No pics = it didn't happen.

 

At this point I want to see a photo of the coin and you holding today's newspaper :-)

 

and tomorrows sports page, showing scores from tonight's games.....

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

Posted
Posted

Perhaps it's just poor images, but some of the design details - in particular on the reverse - look very weak for a Proof striking. So I'm at least somewhat skeptical of its Proof status. And if it's not a Proof, there's a good chance it's been polished.

 

Additionally, the coin doesn't appear to be graded by a respected third party grading company. And if it's not, my first thought is that the technical quality probably isn't "Gem". By the way, "Gem" is an ambiguous term, but it's often equated with a grade of at least 65.

 

All things considered, I fear that you think you got a good deal, but in fact, got a very bad one. I hope my suspicions aren't confirmed.

 

Edited to add:

 

Here is a Proof of the same date - look at the extreme difference in design detail between it and the coin you bought.

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

Posted
Posted

I found the coin Here

 

I am confident that it's not a "Gem" (65). I'm also confident it's not a 64. And I don't know if it's even a Proof. I would return it ASAP and recommend that you don't buy uncertified coins at that price level until you learn a lot more about coins, grading and the rare coin market.

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Anubis63

Anubis63

Posted
  • Author
Posted
I found the coin Here

 

I am confident that it's not a "Gem" (65). I'm also confident it's not a 64. And I don't know if it's even a Proof. I would return it ASAP and recommend that you don't buy uncertified coins at that price level until you learn a lot more about coins, grading and the rare coin market.

 

I really can see how you would think that from the pics. as far as it being a 65 I don't think so but I am confidant it is proof. After it gets graded I will be more than happy to let you know of the final outcome. Thanks and have a Merry Yule.

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Anubis63

Anubis63

Posted
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Posted
Perhaps it's just poor images, but some of the design details - in particular on the reverse - look very weak for a Proof striking. So I'm at least somewhat skeptical of its Proof status. And if it's not a Proof, there's a good chance it's been polished.

 

Additionally, the coin doesn't appear to be graded by a respected third party grading company. And if it's not, my first thought is that the technical quality probably isn't "Gem". By the way, "Gem" is an ambiguous term, but it's often equated with a grade of at least 65.

 

All things considered, I fear that you think you got a good deal, but in fact, got a very bad one. I hope my suspicions aren't confirmed.

 

Edited to add:

 

Here is a Proof of the same date - look at the extreme difference in design detail between it and the coin you bought.

 

You could be right however I did pay only $695.00 which is far less than the link you provided so I really can't say at this point and to the person I said I am confident is is proof it's possible you are correct. As I said I'll see how it comes back from NGC. Thanks all for your input it's very valuable.

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coinman_23885

coinman_23885

Posted
Posted
Perhaps it's just poor images, but some of the design details - in particular on the reverse - look very weak for a Proof striking. So I'm at least somewhat skeptical of its Proof status. And if it's not a Proof, there's a good chance it's been polished.

 

Additionally, the coin doesn't appear to be graded by a respected third party grading company. And if it's not, my first thought is that the technical quality probably isn't "Gem". By the way, "Gem" is an ambiguous term, but it's often equated with a grade of at least 65.

 

All things considered, I fear that you think you got a good deal, but in fact, got a very bad one. I hope my suspicions aren't confirmed.

 

Edited to add:

 

Here is a Proof of the same date - look at the extreme difference in design detail between it and the coin you bought.

 

You could be right however I did pay only $695.00 which is far less than the link you provided so I really can't say at this point and to the person I said I am confident is is proof it's possible you are correct. As I said I'll see how it comes back from NGC. Thanks all for your input it's very valuable.

 

You paid full PF64 money. The strike is too weak for me to believe it is even a proof strike, but even if it was, PF64 would be generous (it would be maxed out in a 64 holder). I wouldn't dump any more money into the piece before returning it. You can always go buy a PCGS or NGC certified example for that amount of money.

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

Posted
Posted
Perhaps it's just poor images, but some of the design details - in particular on the reverse - look very weak for a Proof striking. So I'm at least somewhat skeptical of its Proof status. And if it's not a Proof, there's a good chance it's been polished.

 

Additionally, the coin doesn't appear to be graded by a respected third party grading company. And if it's not, my first thought is that the technical quality probably isn't "Gem". By the way, "Gem" is an ambiguous term, but it's often equated with a grade of at least 65.

 

All things considered, I fear that you think you got a good deal, but in fact, got a very bad one. I hope my suspicions aren't confirmed.

 

Edited to add:

 

Here is a Proof of the same date - look at the extreme difference in design detail between it and the coin you bought.

 

You could be right however I did pay only $695.00 which is far less than the link you provided so I really can't say at this point and to the person I said I am confident is is proof it's possible you are correct. As I said I'll see how it comes back from NGC. Thanks all for your input it's very valuable.

 

If it receives a straight grade and not a details grade, I believe the coin will grade 63 or less and that it's probably not a Proof. Either way, you likely paid quite a bit more than it's worth. And getting it graded will add further to your cost and probably negate any right to return it.

 

You sound like you're in denial because you think you got a good deal. You're just the type of buyer that the seller was looking for. He knew what he was doing.

 

I've tried to help you, but it appears you're going to have to learn your lesson the hard/expensive way. I wish you luck.

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physics-fan3.14

physics-fan3.14

Posted
Posted

As Mark alluded to, I strongly suspect that this is a business strike coin - not a proof.

 

It appears to have some prooflike tendencies. Many people historically have mistaken these prooflike strikes for actual proof coins - which they are not.

 

The good news for you, however, is that in the 62-63 range, the business strikes are actually worth more than equally graded proofs. This reverses in higher grades: PR-64 is worth more than MS-64. I'm guessing your coin is MS-62 or 63 - definitely not 65, and probably not 64.

 

Unfortunately, the coin is still not worth what you paid for it (if it does receive a problem free grade, which there is no way to tell based on those pictures). I would guess the coin is probably worth $450 or so - if it is in fact a problem free MS-63.

 

It may sound like we are really beating you up and being negative on you, but I assure you that we are just trying to help. We've all made mistakes before and paid our tuition - we are trying to pass on some free experience here.

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Anubis63

Anubis63

Posted
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Posted

I bought that coin from a trusted friend he's been doing this for over 40 years but he did have it listed as Gem but after I told him what you all said he admitted it was a PF63 so Gem it is not. But as fare as it proof status he assures me it is a proof strike. So far he's been spot on about the grade except 2 or 3 times. The pictures are completely bad and does not show the full detail that it is in person the discoloration it is not visible in person. I am not ignoring you but I did get feedback on other coins where most people say the same thing as all of you and that's ok. I bought a coin from him a while back and took it to a local dealer who said it was cleaned I didn't believe him so I sent it off to NGC anyway and it was finalized by them as an MS62 so not cleaned. Like I said I do not take offense at your feedback as it really helps me. I am obstinate to a fault when I get feed back like this and do realize I,m taking a chance but so fare all of the coins I bought from him he is 50% wrong and 50% right now it's just a mater of time to find out from NGC. I really will let you know if your suspicions are correct. I'm sorry if it appears that I'm not listening to you but it has been my experience that it is what he says it is except for the Gem statues. Thank you all again.

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

Posted
Posted
I bought that coin from a trusted friend he's been doing this for over 40 years but he did have it listed as Gem but after I told him what you all said he admitted it was a PF63 so Gem it is not. But as fare as it proof status he assures me it is a proof strike. So far he's been spot on about the grade except 2 or 3 times. The pictures are completely bad and does not show the full detail that it is in person the discoloration it is not visible in person. I am not ignoring you but I did get feedback on other coins where most people say the same thing as all of you and that's ok. I bought a coin from him a while back and took it to a local dealer who said it was cleaned I didn't believe him so I sent it off to NGC anyway and it was finalized by them as an MS62 so not cleaned. Like I said I do not take offense at your feedback as it really helps me. I am obstinate to a fault when I get feed back like this and do realize I,m taking a chance but so fare all of the coins I bought from him he is 50% wrong and 50% right now it's just a mater of time to find out from NGC. I really will let you know if your suspicions are correct. I'm sorry if it appears that I'm not listening to you but it has been my experience that it is what he says it is except for the Gem statues. Thank you all again.

 

A few things;

 

1) The fact that a coin was graded 62 does not mean it wasn't cleaned,

 

2) You paid a 64 price for your coin - you could buy an already-graded 63 for quite a bit less.

 

3) Your trusted dealer friend admitted that he thinks the coin is a 63, but labeled it as "gem".

 

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A.Phillips

A.Phillips

Posted
Posted

Dec 22nd at 10:51pm

The coin is ordered and will be arriving soon I'll put up pics when that happens.

 

Dec 23rd at 11:57pm

Yes the coin is raw and as for the discoloration it's just how it came out from the picture I will be having it graded soon but so fare this is a beautiful coin.

 

Dec 24th at 4:13pm

I bought a coin from him a while back and took it to a local dealer who said it was cleaned I didn't believe him so I sent it off to NGC anyway and it was finalized by them as an MS62 so not cleaned.

 

 

You ordered and received it as a raw, and then submitted it to NGC yesterday (Dec. 23rd)? And now you said you it was finalized from NGC as MS62. It doesn't take NGC service 1-2 days to receiving your coin, grading it, put it in holder, and shipping. It took them 3 days+5 days for shipping to few weeks to process.

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physics-fan3.14

physics-fan3.14

Posted
Posted

I bought a coin from him a while back

 

 

You ordered and received it as a raw, and then submitted it to NGC yesterday (Dec. 23rd)? And now you said you it was finalized from NGC as MS62. It doesn't take NGC service 1-2 days to receiving your coin, grading it, put it in holder, and shipping. It took them 3 days+5 days for shipping to few weeks to process.

 

No, the coin he submitted was a different one, that he purchased previously.

 

And Anubis, just because NGC called it 62, doesn't mean it wasn't cleaned.....

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Nutmeg Coin

Nutmeg Coin

Posted
Posted
Nobody has mentioned the 50% wrong part?! That is a terrible hit rate. Why do you keep going back to someone who is wrong half the time?

 

Good luck with that and Merry Christmas!

 

I remember when Universal was sending out mailings referring to MS64 coins as also "gem". I thought 65 was essential for that.

 

On coins there is always another day, returning coins should be part of every dealer's practice, ebay certainly requires that option for sellers (especially on raw coins).

 

For once I would like to see a substantial downside for dealers who try to palm off problem coins as high grade.

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A.Phillips

A.Phillips

Posted
Posted

I bought a coin from him a while back

 

 

You ordered and received it as a raw, and then submitted it to NGC yesterday (Dec. 23rd)? And now you said you it was finalized from NGC as MS62. It doesn't take NGC service 1-2 days to receiving your coin, grading it, put it in holder, and shipping. It took them 3 days+5 days for shipping to few weeks to process.

 

No, the coin he submitted was a different one, that he purchased previously.

 

And Anubis, just because NGC called it 62, doesn't mean it wasn't cleaned.....

 

Oh gotcha

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Anubis63

Anubis63

Posted
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Posted

OK, if anyone is still following this thread I have decided to exchange the seated lib. dime for a 1893 MS63 graded by NGC $5.00 dollar gold coin for $650.00 so I am listening to what you all said and again your input is well received. Any thoughts on this exchange?

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

Posted
Posted
OK, if anyone is still following this thread I have decided to exchange the seated lib. dime for a 1893 MS63 graded by NGC $5.00 dollar gold coin for $650.00 so I am listening to what you all said and again your input is well received. Any thoughts on this exchange?

 

Did you even bother to check recent sales prices for the 1893 $5? The last few that have sold at public auction other than on EBay sold in the $500 range. How many bad deals do you want to make?

 

 

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david3142

david3142

Posted
Posted

You should be doing your homework BEFORE you buy the coin. If you are asking opinions on a board then you don't yet have the knowledge to be spending this much money on coins. Everyone makes mistakes in the beginning. It's much better to make them with $10 purchases than $650 purchases.

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