Trophy Morgan, or, will beauty fade?

[PocketArt]

This particular Morgan might meet the definition of a trophy coin.

 

Toning is volatile isn't it, once it's present on a coin? This 1882-S Morgan has an interesting story in of initial value and present demand- it's pleasing to look at; but appears like a very high maintenance item in terms of preserving it's present likeness....

 

Is it highly common for toned coins like this ever change through time, or, is the beauty frozen with just basic maintenance: Dry/humid free environment? I'd be a bit nervous personally with owning such a looker.

 

http://legendauctions.hibid.com/lot/26993498/-1-1882-s--ngc-ms66-gold-cac/?sort=2&ref=catalog

 

 

[messydesk]

Close to 30 years in that holder, it's pretty stable. Keep it in a friendly environment and it should look pretty much the same in another 30. Whether the $20K+ worth of toning is still worth that is anybody's guess.

[RWB]

1. The coin in only MS-64 under the most favorable conditions. (Personally, it's an ordinary MS-63.)

2. The coloring is interesting and worth a premium of as much as $50. Total value, maybe $80.

 

That Legend found someone stupid enough to pay more than $20,000 for this says a lot about their sales skills, and even more about the ignorance of some buyers.

[nk1nk]

That is a very sexy coin! Not 20k sexy but certainly more than $80 as Roger states, ! And definitely nicer than MS63! Roger might be due for an eye exam! As for the toning, it's safe and sound in its little plastic coffin.

 

Nick

[coinman_23885]

It is beautiful, but it reminds me of why I stopped buying high end toned coins - it seems like a huge bubble waiting to burst IMHO.

[CascadeChris]

1. The coin in only MS-64 under the most favorable conditions. (Personally, it's an ordinary MS-63.)

2. The coloring is interesting and worth a premium of as much as $50. Total value, maybe $80.

 

That Legend found someone stupid enough to pay more than $20,000 for this says a lot about their sales skills, and even more about the ignorance of some buyers.

 

What are you smoking?

[CascadeChris]

This particular Morgan might meet the definition of a trophy coin.

 

Toning is volatile isn't it, once it's present on a coin? This 1882-S Morgan has an interesting story in of initial value and present demand- it's pleasing to look at; but appears like a very high maintenance item in terms of preserving it's present likeness....

 

Is it highly common for toned coins like this ever change through time, or, is the beauty frozen with just basic maintenance: Dry/humid free environment? I'd be a bit nervous personally with owning such a looker.

 

http://legendauctions.hibid.com/lot/26993498/-1-1882-s--ngc-ms66-gold-cac/?sort=2&ref=catalog

 

 

Here's a site that will advance your knowledge of Morgan toning. I suggest reading it a few times and bookmark it to referance it as needed...

 

http://www.jhonecash.com/coins/tonedmorgans.asp

[orifdoc]

Nice coin, likely enormously more stable than a freshly dipped white coin. The natural patina and the intact holder will inhibit (but not absolutely stop) further toning quite nicely.

 

As for its value...... if you have to have one like it, you will need to outbid someone or pay the going rate to get one. RWB will not be bidding you up, so that's one less person you don't have to compete with. I won't be playing, as I think that particular segment is the "flavor of the decade" and prices will likely come back to earth in a dramatic way within a few years.

[RWB]

1. The coin in only MS-64 under the most favorable conditions. (Personally, it's an ordinary MS-63.)

2. The coloring is interesting and worth a premium of as much as $50. Total value, maybe $80.

 

That Legend found someone stupid enough to pay more than $20,000 for this says a lot about their sales skills, and even more about the ignorance of some buyers.

 

What are you smoking?

 

I neither smoke nor drink kool-aid. But I enjoy the occasional single malt Scotch.

[MarkFeld]

1. The coin in only MS-64 under the most favorable conditions. (Personally, it's an ordinary MS-63.)

2. The coloring is interesting and worth a premium of as much as $50. Total value, maybe $80.

 

That Legend found someone stupid enough to pay more than $20,000 for this says a lot about their sales skills, and even more about the ignorance of some buyers.

 

Just because a multitude of collectors value the coin at multiples of what you do, doesn't make them "stupid" or "ignorant".

[brg5658]

That coin will likely show up in an MS67 or MS68 PCGS holder, and will sell for this $20K or even more in those "clothes".

 

Toning "premiums" on über-common Morgan dollars are a fool's game IMO. There are very few collectors buying in this rarefied air of $10K+ common coins. These are my opinions, and when I see things like this post it reminds me why I got out of collecting USA coins. To each his/her own.

[Raisethis2]

It really is a beautiful coin. As we know there are some who have been gifted with the privilege of great wealth, often undeserved. Let them pay $20,000, maybe even more. While I don't agree with Roger, it's a coin worthy of a very significant premium multiple. You can look at every Morgan at a major show and not find one as beautiful.

 

As to the OP's question, it appears stable in the holder it calls home. There's no reason to think that a hundred years or more from now it wont be exactly the same.

[RWB]

1. The coin in only MS-64 under the most favorable conditions. (Personally, it's an ordinary MS-63.)

2. The coloring is interesting and worth a premium of as much as $50. Total value, maybe $80.

 

That Legend found someone stupid enough to pay more than $20,000 for this says a lot about their sales skills, and even more about the ignorance of some buyers.

 

Just because a multitude of collectors value the coin at multiples of what you do, doesn't make them "stupid" or "ignorant".

 

As you should know very well.

 

I stand by my kudos to Legend for finding a $20,000 buyer for an $80 coin.

[coinman_23885]

That coin will likely show up in an MS67 or MS68 PCGS holder, and will sell for this $20K or even more in those "clothes".

 

There are very few collectors buying in this rarefied air of $10K+ common coins. These are my opinions, and when I see things like this post it reminds me why I got out of collecting USA coins. To each his/her own.

 

+1

[BillJones]

Many successful dealers are niche players. Some dealers specialize in early copper, raw coins or modern pieces. Some only stock tokens and medals.

 

Legend's niche is high grade, high eye appeal coins that are 100% approved by CAC in their retail business and mostly the same sort of material in their auctions. They are not interested in circulated coins for the most part, and place a higher value on the state of preservation than overall rarity. They make a market for condition rarities.

 

Since I have a huge interest in history, and are often drawn to rarer coins in nice condition, but not in the condition census, I've done very little business with Legend. The only coin I have purchased from them was an 1854-D Three Dollar Gold Piece in AU-55, CAC. They had it on consignment from a customer, who, "had decided to go in a different direction." This information was included in their write-up about the piece, and it was obvious that this was not the type of coin they liked handle. It worked for me, however.

.

[jerseycat10]

1. The coin in only MS-64 under the most favorable conditions. (Personally, it's an ordinary MS-63.)

2. The coloring is interesting and worth a premium of as much as $50. Total value, maybe $80.

 

That Legend found someone stupid enough to pay more than $20,000 for this says a lot about their sales skills, and even more about the ignorance of some buyers.

 

It's a shame that someone who has contributed so much to this hobby also resorts to such negativity.

[RWB]

The opinion is neither negative nor positive. Anyone who reads it as "such negativity" is missing the fundamentals of discourse.

 

From the photo, abrasions on the obverse clearly remove the coin from MS-65 or MS-66. Maybe the photo is deceptive; or maybe not.

 

The coin is a common date Morgan dollar with some nice obverse color. It has no special feature intrinsic to the piece - just some ephemeral tarnish. To me, Legend did an excellent job in getting $20,000 from someone with "more money than sense."

 

However, I recognize that there are people who treasure ephemeral surface effects over real substance, and that many of these have funds to squander on the pleasure of owning such a coin. So be it. Colorfully toned coins are certainly interesting and a pleasure to view; but "value" is a market judgement, and in this instance one with which I completely disagree.

 

My personal opinion stands. Opinions of others are of equal merit.

[CascadeChris]

The opinion is neither negative nor positive. Anyone who reads it as "such negativity" is missing the fundamentals of discourse.

 

From the photo, abrasions on the obverse clearly remove the coin from MS-65 or MS-66. Maybe the photo is deceptive; or maybe not.

 

The coin is a common date Morgan dollar with some nice obverse color. It has no special feature intrinsic to the piece - just some ephemeral tarnish. To me, Legend did an excellent job in getting $20,000 from someone with "more money than sense."

 

However, I recognize that there are people who treasure ephemeral surface effects over real substance, and that many of these have funds to squander on the pleasure of owning such a coin. So be it. Colorfully toned coins are certainly interesting and a pleasure to view; but "value" is a market judgement, and in this instance one with which I completely disagree.

 

My personal opinion stands. Opinions of others are of equal merit.

 

High end toners are evaluated more like art than coins. Maybe that's what your linear thought process fails to understand.

[physics-fan3.14]

The enormous palm print across much of the obverse immediately turns me off of this coin, despite its other qualities. That would be a whole lotta "nope" from me - especially at that ludicrous price.

 

I can fully understand why someone would pay strong money for it - but $20k is ridiculous.

[numisport]

If this coin were in an NGC MS 65 Star holder they may claim the coin not marketable and settle for automatic PCGS MS 64. Do ya think ?

[coinman1794]

This particular Morgan might meet the definition of a trophy coin.

 

Toning is volatile isn't it, once it's present on a coin? This 1882-S Morgan has an interesting story in of initial value and present demand- it's pleasing to look at; but appears like a very high maintenance item in terms of preserving it's present likeness....

 

Is it highly common for toned coins like this ever change through time, or, is the beauty frozen with just basic maintenance: Dry/humid free environment? I'd be a bit nervous personally with owning such a looker.

 

http://legendauctions.hibid.com/lot/26993498/-1-1882-s--ngc-ms66-gold-cac/?sort=2&ref=catalog

 

 

Because the holder is so old, the toning is probably fairly stable. However, these older holders are not known for being air tight, and much will depend on where and how it is stored in the coming years. I would recommend Intercept products, preferably the double box.

[dcarr]

The opinion is neither negative nor positive. Anyone who reads it as "such negativity" is missing the fundamentals of discourse.

 

From the photo, abrasions on the obverse clearly remove the coin from MS-65 or MS-66. Maybe the photo is deceptive; or maybe not.

 

The coin is a common date Morgan dollar with some nice obverse color. It has no special feature intrinsic to the piece - just some ephemeral tarnish. To me, Legend did an excellent job in getting $20,000 from someone with "more money than sense."

 

However, I recognize that there are people who treasure ephemeral surface effects over real substance, and that many of these have funds to squander on the pleasure of owning such a coin. So be it. Colorfully toned coins are certainly interesting and a pleasure to view; but "value" is a market judgement, and in this instance one with which I completely disagree.

 

My personal opinion stands. Opinions of others are of equal merit.

 

You could have just said that the coin isn't one that you would buy and leave it at that. Instead, you have to announce your disdain for a fellow collector who happens to appreciate the coin more than you do.

 

Personally, I like the coin and "MS-63" is a ridiculously-low assessment of the grade. Do you have any coins for sale ?

[dragon]

Close to 30 years in that holder, it's pretty stable. Keep it in a friendly environment and it should look pretty much the same in another 30. Whether the $20K+ worth of toning is still worth that is anybody's guess.

 

 

 

 

Pretty much my sentiments exactly. In addition, as toned dollars go, that one is at the top of the tree IMO and could easily be the centerpiece of even an advanced toned dollar collection.

[brg5658]

The enormous palm print across much of the obverse immediately turns me off of this coin...

 

Huh?

 

I don't see a palm print anywhere. I see a bit of "textile toning" on the neck, through the hair, etc. -- but nothing that looks even remotely like a palm print or any other kind of "print".

[RWB]

"High end toners are evaluated more like art than coins. Maybe that's what your linear thought process fails to understand."

 

Could be, although I could dispute the concept of toned coins as being "art." However, it does not matter - someone(s) bought the coin for the coloring. That is their decision, and I wish them well in their choice.

 

[My comments were intended to broaden perceptions; that seems to have been accomplished. ]

[brg5658]

For posterity, I'd like to post a picture of the coin in question from the auction -- as these threads all too often end up pointing to broken links and the "context" of the thread is lost. Below is also the description of the coin from the auction.

 

Lot #: 98

Estimate: 15,000.00 - 17,500.00 USD

Group - Category: Coins & Paper Money - Coins - US

Lead: $1 1882-S NGC MS66 GOLD CAC

 

Description:

Ex Flannagan Collection.

MOTHER NATURE’S ULTIMATE BABY.

 

We admit to being fully smitten by this incredible GEM. Legend bought this coin way back in 1992 from long time dealer Dave Berg. At the time he did not think anyone would pay the ridiculous price of $750. We did not hesitate. We told Phil about it, and all we had left after that, was a picture for our wall. To date, even the 1880-S in MS68+ CAC in the Northern Lights Collection is second to us when compared to this beast. The quality and colors are beyond mind boggling!

 

First, we elected to keep this coin in its original thick NGC holder. One look and you can easily tell the coin should grade MS67 for its technical quality. The luster is nearly blinding and there are practically NO marks. Every detail is fully struck.

 

About the color. Mother Nature's Baby is what we call this monster. The colors are out of this world! Electric and totally original shades of deep pearl green/royal blue/fiery violet/amber swirl all over the obverse. Picasso or the boldest Peacock in heat can't compare to the magical colors. The colors are so memorable too. We rank the colors an unheard of 100-yes 100 on our 1-10 scale (10 is the best).

 

Keep in mind, we have seen and handled the very best of the best in toners. Legend and Legend Rare Coin Auctions consider this coin THE VERY BEST. We will really miss it. EVERY time it and the 82-S in MS68 were displayed, people were moved. In fact, we once displayed the 2 coins alongside Phil's 1795 coins-it was like the 1795 did not exist!

 

We are opening the coin at Legend Numismatics bid to buy it. We strongly believe this coin could (and should) set a world record price. It really is a once in a life time toner. Good luck!

 

Certification Number 144735-009

PCGS # 7140

 

[CascadeChris]

The enormous palm print across much of the obverse immediately turns me off of this coin...

 

Huh?

 

I don't see a palm print anywhere. I see a bit of "textile toning" on the neck, through the hair, etc. -- but nothing that looks even remotely like a palm print or any other kind of "print".

 

It's very light and almost inconsequential... Lower left obverse field

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

The enormous palm print across much of the obverse immediately turns me off of this coin...

 

Huh?

 

I don't see a palm print anywhere. I see a bit of "textile toning" on the neck, through the hair, etc. -- but nothing that looks even remotely like a palm print or any other kind of "print".

 

It's very light and almost inconsequential... Lower left obverse field

 

Have you seen the coin in hand?

[brg5658]

The enormous palm print across much of the obverse immediately turns me off of this coin...

 

Huh?

 

I don't see a palm print anywhere. I see a bit of "textile toning" on the neck, through the hair, etc. -- but nothing that looks even remotely like a palm print or any other kind of "print".

 

It's very light and almost inconsequential... Lower left obverse field

 

I still don't see it, but it is certainly not an "...enormous palm print across much of the obverse..." as described by physics-fan3.14.

 

[jerseycat10]

The enormous palm print across much of the obverse immediately turns me off of this coin...

 

Huh?

 

I don't see a palm print anywhere. I see a bit of "textile toning" on the neck, through the hair, etc. -- but nothing that looks even remotely like a palm print or any other kind of "print".

 

It's very light and almost inconsequential... Lower left obverse field

 

I still don't see it, but it is certainly not an "...enormous palm print across much of the obverse..." as described by physics-fan3.14.

 

 

I do see a print below her jaw and in front of her chin, but I agree with brg5658; It is certainly not "enormous" and is certainly not "across much of the obverse".