what does this half eagle grade and why?

[Lucky One]

what does this half eagle grade and why?

[Lucky One]

you can add your opinion of condition as well, as in whether it is straight graded or was hit for a problem...

[Danye West]

AU details. Looks heavily polished.

[johnny9434]

xf details & whizzed?

[physics-fan3.14]

It is nearly impossible to get an idea of the surface quality of this coin from those pictures. Charlotte mint gold is notorious for poor production. The TPGs are also usually extremely forgiving of problems on southern gold.

 

I think it has an EF level of wear, but that is all I can say about this coin from those pictures.

[coinman_23885]

I would call it PCGS XF40, NGC shot XF45. Keep in mind that the reverse of this issue notoriously comes with a mushy strike, so focusing on the obverse details lead me to my conclusion.

[MarkFeld]

I'll guess AU53 and neither cleaned nor whizzed.

[Raisethis2]

Looks pretty original to me too. I'm guessing AU 53 with a shot at AU 55.

 

 

The field chatter might hurt it along with reverse strike but I don't think by much.

 

 

[BillJones]

It's probably graded AU-50, but I'd be in the EF camp because of the rim issues.

[tommy44]

It's probably graded AU-50, but I'd be in the EF camp because of the rim issues.

 

I'm with Bill on this one. I'll add that it may have been cleaned long ago, not enough crud in the letters for an original look.

[numisport]

Coin appears to have rims that are tooled and or polished to diminish bumps and nicks. Would probably not grade but has XF 40 details.

[Lucky One]

Thank you all for contributing your opinions, all were thoughtful and I agree, the photos left a lot to the imagination, sorry. As a disclaimer, I need to say that this is not my coin, I found it on the internet and have never held it in my hand so I can't speak to what we see in the photos. This was purely an exercise in knowledge, and I see a few of you have enough about this series to know that this particular date had a bad reverse die that had flat details that didn't strike up the wing feathers, shield, neck and arrow feathers, leaving a rather mushy look. Many that you see offered are much worse, and even my AU55 has weak detail, even though it is one of the best struck specimens I have ever seen. If I was offering an opinion of this coin it would be difficult because the coloration does indicate a possible light cleaning, but without being able to see the luster up close I would be confused. The coin is in a straight graded XF45 slab and looks properly graded to me based solely on years of reading photos but could just as easily graded XF40 or AU50, so it looks like everyone was very close on this one. The only thing I was looking was the reason for the weakness on the reverse and someone hit it, but it is not weakly struck- this is well struck for the issue and regardless of the appearance, it is one of my favorite coins in my set because I was lucky enough to find a 'fully' struck specimen. Anyway, thanks to all, enjoyed the responses. Happy collecting my friends!

[Lucky One]

Coin appears to have rims that are tooled and or polished to diminish bumps and nicks. Would probably not grade but has XF 40 details.

 

not to single you out, just wanted to mention I looked closely at the flaws on the obv rim- only one is a rim nick, but so minor they'd never flag it. The others are just pits or shallow depressions in the planchet in areas that didn't strike up into the deep recess of the rim so they aren't considered flaws at all, just part of the manufascturing process...

[Lucky One]

one last note that I forgot to bring up- this particular coin has a tell-tale sign of grade that demonstrates why it got the grade- if you look at the main arrow feather you'll see a fine line going straight down the center- this was part of the original design and is very light even on a mint state coin, so even a tiny amount of circulation would have worn it off flat. For this reason, I don't think it could grade lower than XF45...

[Nutmeg Coin]

This goes to show how vital certification on coins that would be bought as problem coin or culls by many dealers raw. In the holder it has at least one company standing behind it, though "guarantee" submissions are notably difficult to get a grading company admit it made a mistake. From the public dealers will often buy nice BUs, as well as much better dates a grade below what they actually are in the marketplace.

[Lucky One]

This goes to show how vital certification on coins that would be bought as problem coin or culls by many dealers raw. In the holder it has at least one company standing behind it, though "guarantee" submissions are notably difficult to get a grading company admit it made a mistake. From the public dealers will often buy nice BUs, as well as much better dates a grade below what they actually are in the marketplace.

 

actually, not to be contrary, but I have a photographic record of what I call a miracle coin- it was purchased in a PCGS XF details mount removed holder, I broke it out to put it in a NGC holder and it came back as AU dets cleaned, then I sold it when I upgraded that date and a major dealer had it put in a straight graded ICG AU55 slab. I'd say that's a lot of opinions and no buyer after it was straight-graded could have gotten a fair deal on it because it was a problem coin. By the way- it was a $1500 coin in my opinion when I bought it. At the AU55 grade it is worth over $15,000. I have always said that professional grading is just as dangerous to the novice or casual inexperienced collector as a raw coin, maybe more dangerous since he might trust the opinion on the slab where he would likely get it appraised prior to purchasing if raw. Just my humble opinion, please no personal attacks over an opinion, at least it is based on facts...

[numisport]

GTG is a great thread and to me usually an eye opener. I see why a consensus of you astute collectors are so right when you say 'must have coin in hand' to properly evaluate problems or attributes.

[Lucky One]

GTG is a great thread and to me usually an eye opener. I see why a consensus of you astute collectors are so right when you say 'must have coin in hand' to properly evaluate problems or attributes.

 

Absolutely, I could never have graded this coin without seeing the surfaces up close, some cleanings are so minor that they're missed by the TPGs. In fact, the photos showed it as dull and lifeless. It wasn't until I had it in hand that I realized it had a good shot at AU. (mailorder coin)

[Nutmeg Coin]

"...actually, not to be contrary, but I have a photographic record of what I call a miracle coin- it was purchased in a PCGS XF details mount removed holder, I broke it out to put it in a NGC holder and it came back as AU dets cleaned, then I sold it when I upgraded that date and a major dealer had it put in a straight graded ICG AU55 slab."

 

ICG certifications don't add that much value when you get into real money, the smart money does not shell out huge money for their coins even with scrutinizing them, they still sell at big discounts unless the buyer sees a likely crossover at the two major services. Personally I find them a good option, inexpensive, fast, reasonable, free conservation, a little more tolerant but good luck getting damaged coins through them into no problem holders. You could just as often get two negatives on the label; "cleaned" and "damaged".

[Lucky One]

"...actually, not to be contrary, but I have a photographic record of what I call a miracle coin- it was purchased in a PCGS XF details mount removed holder, I broke it out to put it in a NGC holder and it came back as AU dets cleaned, then I sold it when I upgraded that date and a major dealer had it put in a straight graded ICG AU55 slab."

 

ICG certifications don't add that much value when you get into real money, the smart money does not shell out huge money for their coins even with scrutinizing them, they still sell at big discounts unless the buyer sees a likely crossover at the two major services. Personally I find them a good option, inexpensive, fast, reasonable, free conservation, a little more tolerant but good luck getting damaged coins through them into no problem holders. You could just as often get two negatives on the label; "cleaned" and "damaged".

 

I have over five decades of hands-on experience in the hobby and have assembled many sets over the years so I agree with you that ICG coins should be graded on the spot and discounted to your opinion of grade or passed on. I personally have bought very few of their coins because I am so remote to a city (200+ miles to any major city) that I buy most of my coins through the mail, and after returning several very expensive ICG slabbed half ealges I swore them off. My point is that IF the coin was able to grade so differently so many times, it would present a danger raw OR in a holder. The only defense against buying a bad slab is long hard experience, so if we aren't that guy, we better have a very experienced close friend and confidant in the business or hobby.