Never Use USPS to shipp anything of value posted by Ronald G. Crouch Jr

[CSJournals-migration]

Boxes full of gold and silver stolen by the USPS

 

I shipped a package to NGC via USPS on 11th. Today the 13th I found out that the USPS declared that I was committing mail fraud and never stated why. Remember the US Government runs and owns the USPS, so they can do what ever they like. From mow on UPS or FedEx will be my choice for shipping to anyone. And to top it off the USPS will not provide a date as to when it will release my package.

 

See more journals by Ronald G. Crouch Jr

[MarkFeld]

I'm sorry for your trouble.

 

However, while I don't know the details of your particular shipment, typically, USPS registered-insured mail is by far the safest method - much safer than the two options you mentioned. So your thread title does not sound like good advice. Additionally, it doesn't sound as if the coins were stolen, but rather, that they are being held for some reason.

 

Try to focus on doing what you need to do to get your coins back and provide facts and information to them, not merely accusations. Best of luck.

 

[Six Mile Rick]

USPS is the best Priority Insured shipping!!!

 

10 years of buying and selling across the states and all packages arrived. Some times slow but usually faster than receive date listed.

 

Thumbs UP to USPS

[World Colonial]

I have never had a problem shipping USPS registered.

 

I know that UPS and FedEx ship coins because I have received packages but when I tried to send them, I was told they would not. They weren't eligible.

[Conder101]

Registered is safer than UPS or FedEx (Registered is the safes way to ship period) and either Priority insured or Registered provide higher levels of insurance. maximum insurance for items of unusual value at FedEx or UPS is $1K, Priority insured is either $5K or 10K, and Registered is $50K.

 

Without a lot more details on your problem I'd have to say there is probably a good reason why your package is being held.

[MarkFeld]

Registered is safer than UPS or FedEx (Registered is the safes way to ship period) and either Priority insured or Registered provide higher levels of insurance. maximum insurance for items of unusual value at FedEx or UPS is $1K, Priority insured is either $5K or 10K, and Registered is $50K.

 

Without a lot more details on your problem I'd have to say there is probably a good reason why your package is being held.

 

Unless it's changed, I believe the limit for registered is $25,000.

[numisport]

Additionally another reason to use USPS is THE no brainer--- UPS and probably Fed Ex will not ship to a P.O. box.

[Lucky One]

Is it possible there was something fraudulent in the package that you weren't aware of? Why would you automatically assume that any other carrier is any safer? They ALL are subject to federal shipping regulations as well as the Patriot Act so it wouldn't make a difference in the case of suspected fraud even if you flew them on the back of a carrier pigeon.

 

To set you straight, the US Govt does NOT own the postal service and hasn't for most of our lifetimes. In fact, it doesn't have much to do with it at all except Congressional oversight, and that is very limited. They are a congressionally chartered for-profit business and I think about the only things the government regulates is postal rates and pension funding. As for shipping valuables, there is no service better than USPS unless you want to pay ten times as much for a private courier.

 

As for FedEx & UPS- I believe FedEx will insure rare coins but if UPS hasn't changed their rules, the only thing they'll insure is the intristic or face value of money, not their rarity value.

 

As for your particular problem- have you even demanded an explanation? There are laws and regulations and the best way to handle this is start googling until you know your rights.

 

In closing- we have shipped a half million dollars worth of valuables, probably well over 500 packages, via USPS over the past several years and out of all of them, they lost zero registered, zero insured and only two uninsured packages. The uninsured consisted of a five dollar encased cent and a nine dollar type coin, and that was BEFORE the postal service tracked every single piece of first class mail so there could have been fraud on the recipient's part just as easily as USPS's. I'd say that is an outstanding track record. Cry and holler and blame everyone for whatever you like, but without offering us specific details, you can't expect much sympathy here my friend.

[Revenant]

I've had good and bad experience with USPS. I've had packages stolen with UPS. It's a little hit and miss with all of them.

[Conder101]

Unless it's changed, I believe the limit for registered is $25,000.

It changed a couple years ago, it's $50K now

 

2.0

Registered Mail

2.1

Basic Standards

2.1.1 Description

Registered Mail is subject to the basic standards in 1.0; see 1.4 for eligible matter. Registered Mail is the most secure service that the USPS offers. It incorporates a system of receipts to monitor the movement of the mail from the point of acceptance to delivery. Registered Mail provides the sender with a mailing receipt and, upon request (see 1.8), electronic verification that an article was delivered or that a delivery attempt was made. Customers may obtain a record of delivery (which includes the recipient’s signature) by purchasing a return receipt (6.0), at the time of mailing. Customers may direct delivery of Registered Mail only to the addressee (or addressee’s authorized agent) using Registered Mail Restricted Delivery (2.1.4). Postal insurance is included in the fee for articles with a value of at least $0.01 up to a maximum insured value of $50,000.00.

[USAuPzlBxBob]

Also never had a problem with USPS, but I paid through the nose on some returns to dealers, where the "declared value" question was asked, and the insurance would jack up the price.

 

I always wondered if I should declare up to the maximum of an insurance tier on the lower value shipments, like where the shipment would be less than $5000 but the insurance could cover up to $5000 at no extra charge, even though the returned coins were worth less than $5000, so that if my package got lost or stolen, then maybe I'd actually make money.

 

But I balked on such an idea because I thought it bordered on me acting in a fraudulent manner.

[MarkFeld]

Unless it's changed, I believe the limit for registered is $25,000.

It changed a couple years ago, it's $50K now

 

2.0

Registered Mail

2.1

Basic Standards

2.1.1 Description

Registered Mail is subject to the basic standards in 1.0; see 1.4 for eligible matter. Registered Mail is the most secure service that the USPS offers. It incorporates a system of receipts to monitor the movement of the mail from the point of acceptance to delivery. Registered Mail provides the sender with a mailing receipt and, upon request (see 1.8), electronic verification that an article was delivered or that a delivery attempt was made. Customers may obtain a record of delivery (which includes the recipient’s signature) by purchasing a return receipt (6.0), at the time of mailing. Customers may direct delivery of Registered Mail only to the addressee (or addressee’s authorized agent) using Registered Mail Restricted Delivery (2.1.4). Postal insurance is included in the fee for articles with a value of at least $0.01 up to a maximum insured value of $50,000.00.

 

Thank you.

[Conder101]

I always wondered if I should declare up to the maximum of an insurance tier on the lower value shipments, like where the shipment would be less than $5000 but the insurance could cover up to $5000 at no extra charge, even though the returned coins were worth less than $5000, so that if my package got lost or stolen, then maybe I'd actually make money.

If the package got lost they would request proof of value. If you shipped say a $2K coin and insured it for $5K, they would still only pay the $2K. You can't collect more on the insurance than the market value of the item.

[joeyuk]

Do you know what they would accept as proof of value? Would it require recent auction or could they accept NGC/PCGS price guide?

[tommy44]

After 18 1/2 years on eBay (since November 1997) and over 18,000 transactions I've only had one customer say their USPS shipment didn't arrive and the delivery confirmation number says that it was in fact delivered.

[Nutmeg Coin]

It is highly unusual for the usps to seize a package and since such a decision by them would carry criminal penalties if they are engaging in fraud, there must have been serious red flags. I've seen enough federal indictments where they throw mail fraud into the charges for good measure, that usually there are other issues connected. Lots of remedies are available at law, including complaining through your congressman or senator's office. If they deem the matter criminal rather than civil however, they may not do anything to intervene. If something of real value disappeared en route I would be as tenacious as a pit bull. Postal inspectors will address serious issue of fraud and are not hard to get in touch with.

[RWB]

More information from the OP is needed to make sense of the original complaint. The idea of a mail fraud allegation coming up only two days after an insured/registered parcel was mailed raises considerable suspicion that a lot more is going on than originally disclosed.

[Conder101]

Do you know what they would accept as proof of value? Would it require recent auction or could they accept NGC/PCGS price guide?

From the DMM

 

3.2

Proof of Value

Either the mailer or the addressee must submit acceptable proof to establish the cost or value of the article at the time it was mailed. Proof of value should be submitted electronically or attached to the claim form under 1.5; otherwise, the claim cannot be processed. Other proof may be requested to help determine an accurate value. Examples are:

 

a. A sales receipt, paid invoice or bill of sale, or statement of value from a reputable dealer.

b. Paid repair bills; if the claim is for partial damage, estimates of repair costs or appraisals from a reputable dealer. Repair costs may not exceed the original purchase price.

c. Receipt or invoice for the costs incurred to buy a surety bond required to reissue a lost item.

d. Receipt or invoice of costs incurred for the reconstruction of nonnegotiable documents.

e. A copy of a credit card statement or other documentation indicating the amount paid.

f. For Internet transactions conducted through a Web-based payment network that offers payment services through a stored value account, provide a computer printout of the online transaction identifying the purchaser and seller, price paid, date of transaction, description of item purchased, and assurance that the transaction status is completed. The printout must clearly identify the Web-based payment network provider through which the Internet transaction was conducted.

 

 

And from section 4. Claims 4.1 g

 

For stamps and coins of philatelic or numismatic value; the fair market value is determined by a recognized stamp or coin dealer or current coin and stamp collectors’ newsletters and trade papers. The date of the fair market value determination must be current and prior to the mailing date.

[ArmyBud]

Never had a problem with USPS. If shipped registered and someone loses it they will lose their job!

Bud

[coinman1794]

I always wondered if I should declare up to the maximum of an insurance tier on the lower value shipments, like where the shipment would be less than $5000 but the insurance could cover up to $5000 at no extra charge, even though the returned coins were worth less than $5000, so that if my package got lost or stolen, then maybe I'd actually make money.

If the package got lost they would request proof of value. If you shipped say a $2K coin and insured it for $5K, they would still only pay the $2K. You can't collect more on the insurance than the market value of the item.

 

That is correct.

[coinman1794]

Unless it's changed, I believe the limit for registered is $25,000.

It changed a couple years ago, it's $50K now

 

2.0

Registered Mail

2.1

Basic Standards

2.1.1 Description

Registered Mail is subject to the basic standards in 1.0; see 1.4 for eligible matter. Registered Mail is the most secure service that the USPS offers. It incorporates a system of receipts to monitor the movement of the mail from the point of acceptance to delivery. Registered Mail provides the sender with a mailing receipt and, upon request (see 1.8), electronic verification that an article was delivered or that a delivery attempt was made. Customers may obtain a record of delivery (which includes the recipient’s signature) by purchasing a return receipt (6.0), at the time of mailing. Customers may direct delivery of Registered Mail only to the addressee (or addressee’s authorized agent) using Registered Mail Restricted Delivery (2.1.4). Postal insurance is included in the fee for articles with a value of at least $0.01 up to a maximum insured value of $50,000.00.

 

Thank you.

 

I was unaware of the increase, too. Thanks!

[RWB]

"Postal insurance is included in the fee for articles with a value of at least $0.01 up to a maximum insured value of $50,000.00."

 

But -- you pay separately for the insurance depending on declared value.

 

 

Nothing more from the OP?

[Nutmeg Coin]

Federal seizures can be sticky business. Lawyers tell people to keep their mouths zipped closed.

[RWB]

....after only 2 days...from the mail....? Seems very odd.

 

(Postal inspectors usually handle cases first.)

[Conder101]

But -- you pay separately for the insurance depending on declared value.

Well yes and no. There is a flat rate of $11.70 for items of no value and there is a rate chart of fees based on the declared value for items, but it is NOT the same chart that they use for insured packages. The rates are MUCH lower.

 

Rates for insured mail

AMOUNT FOR MERCHANDISE

INSURANCE COVERAGE DESIRED

 

$0.01 to $50 $2.10

50.01 to 100 $2.65

100.01 to 200 $3.35

200.01 to 300 $4.35

300.01 to 400 $5.50

400.01 to 500 $6.65

500.01 to 600 $9.05

600.01 to $5000 $9.05 plus $1.25 per $100 or fraction thereof over $600 in declared value

(maximum liability is $5000)

 

 

Rates for Registered

 

DECLARED Fee (in addition to postage)

VALUE

$0.00 $11.70

0.01 to $100 $12.50

100.01 to 500 $14.55

500.01 to 1,000 $16.10

1,000.01 to 2,000 $17.65

2,000.01 to 3,000 $19.20

3,000.01 to 4,000 $20.75

4,000.01 to 5,000 $22.30

$5,000.01 to $50,000.00 $22.30 + $1.55

per each $1,000 or fraction thereof over first $5,000

 

So a $1000 package would be Insured $14.05, Registered $16.10

A $5000 package would be Insured $64.05 Registered $22.30

A $25,000 Registered package (the old maximum amount) would be $53.30 Less than the cost of a $5,000 insured package.

 

And those amounts for Registered include the Registered mailing fee of $11.70 so the amounts you are actually paying for the "insurance" coverage are $4.40 and $10.60 respectively.

 

And the rates for both of those are in addition to the actual postage.