1921 Peace Dollar - PCGS-62 (VAM-1H - Business Strike from Satin Proof Dies)

[SBG]

Here's a new 1921 High Relief Peace Dollar purchase that I'm pleased to share with my fellow forum members.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing your comments and observations about strike, variety and luster.

 

1921 Peace Dollar - PCGS MS-62 (VAM-1H - Business Strike from Satin Proof Dies)

 

[Walkerfan]

Strike is above average. The luster looks like a softly frosted satin. I'll say MS 63. I like it a lot.

 

 

[MarkFeld]

That's a nice looking example and my grade guess is MS64 (with a shot at MS63, depending upon how the marks look in-hand)..

[Afterword]

MS-64. Nice coin!

[Nutmeg Coin]

My first impression was that it was AU58; is there really enough detail on the coin for high MS?

[Insider]

My first impression was that it was AU58; is there really enough detail on the coin for high MS?

 

I did not see what you see to make the coin AU.

 

Just curious...what is your second impression of the coin after reading the posts above?

[RWB]

Nice with above average detail. Typical unevenness across inscriptions. Still, a nice 1921 and better looking than many with "high numbers."

[mumu]

Vam 1 G

 

Nice look on that one.

[Nutmeg Coin]

My first impression was that it was AU58; is there really enough detail on the coin for high MS?

 

I did not see what you see to make the coin AU.

 

Just curious...what is your second impression of the coin after reading the posts above?

 

Gray toning looked a little like friction to me, detail around the ear usually comes in mid and higher grades too.

 

Just look at the bright ones with clear high relief on the HA and other auction sites, very impressive. I guess toning is not that common with Peace $1s for some reason.

[EleMint Man]

I like the toning, especially on the reverse. Gives it good eye appeal with an original look. This is the kind of coin where there's a lot of play when viewed at different angles. "Flashy" bright coins catch the eye faster but almost seem generic due to

the similarities. Also, there are no annoying scratches, bag marks or dings...

at least that I can see! !921's are known to have a weaker strike than other years

and are graded with that in mind. 1924's on the other hand, are known to have a

sharper strike than most years. If you check out MS64's & MS65's on HA of the two mentioned years and magnify the images, you will see the difference.

The Peace $$ minted in San Francisco aren't as sharp in all years too!

 

I would rate this as MS64, nice coin!

 

 

http://coins.ha.com/itm/peace-dollars/silver-and-related-dollars/1921-1-ms64-pcgs-cac-pcgs-population-4167-1539-ngc-census-3544-1282-mintage-1-006-473-numismedia-wsl-price-for/p/1234-68021.s?ic4=ListView-Thumbnail-071515#

 

http://coins.ha.com/itm/peace-dollars/silver-and-related-dollars/1924-1-bar-d-vam-1a-ms64-ngc-top-50-ngc-census-0-0-pcgs-population-8-0-/a/1192-9261.s?ic4=ListView-Thumbnail-071515#

 

 

[SBG]

Thanks to everyone for your informative posts regarding the subject coin.

 

I'm pleased to post the PCGS MS-62 grade in response to several requests.

 

I purchased this example primarily because of the VAM-1H Variety, Strong Strike and Glossy Luster.

 

[david3142]

How many 1921 Peace dollars do you own?

[SBG]

How many 1921 Peace dollars do you own?

Hi David,

 

In reply to your above posted question, I'm collecting 1921 Peace Dollars by both VAM Variety and Die State, so I've accumulated a nice set of them.

 

I'm going to eventually thin out the herd as I continue to upgrade coins.

[Afterword]

You have a very nice MS-62.

[david3142]

Wow, how many coins are necessary to complete that set?

[RWB]

Sure are a lot of those "proof dies" coins floating around....?

[PocketArt]

Beautiful coin SBG, not sure if I have one of these beauties; but for what it's worth, I'll post my MS62, 1921 ANACS Peace Dollar. Inquiring collectors want to know RWB!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SBG]

Wow, how many coins are necessary to complete that set?

David, In reply to your above quoted question, I'm not aware of a specific registry set or other listed set consisting of all the 1921 Peace Dollar VAM and Die State varieties.

 

However, I'm enjoying the challenge of hunting for them and assembling my own free-form collection of well-struck, satiny to glossy lustrous 1921 Peace Dollars.

[JIM F.]

Very nice. Thanks for posting. If requested, would PCGS have identified the VAM on the slab?

 

 

[RWB]

If there's VAM on the slab (any flavor), it can usually be cleaned off with a damp cloth, or maybe a little alcohol -- don't use acetone or gasoline.

 

The VAM gets there when people don't wash their hands after eating their PBJ sandwich.

[SBG]

Very nice. Thanks for posting. If requested, would PCGS have identified the VAM on the slab?

JimBucks, In reply to your above quoted question, yes PCGS will attribute the 1921 VAM-1H Peace Dollar variety as "VAM-1H Polishing Lines" on the slab insert if that service is requested (see link): 1921 Peace VAM-1H - PCGS Coin Facts Link

[messydesk]

Wow, how many coins are necessary to complete that set?

David, In reply to your above quoted question, I'm not aware of a specific registry set or other listed set consisting of all the 1921 Peace Dollar VAM and Die State varieties.

 

However, I'm enjoying the challenge of hunting for them and assembling my own free-form collection of well-struck, satiny to glossy lustrous 1921 Peace Dollars.

The SSDC Registry supports assembling a set of all 1921 Peace dollar VAMs, including listed die stages. There are currently two sets being actively built on the registry. One is 72% complete. You need to be an SSDC member to participate.

[messydesk]

If there's VAM on the slab (any flavor), it can usually be cleaned off with a damp cloth, or maybe a little alcohol -- don't use acetone or gasoline.

 

The VAM gets there when people don't wash their hands after eating their PBJ sandwich.

Not true. It gets there when people don't wash their hands after grooming their hair.

 

 

The discolored, brittle paper explaining the benefits of this confluence of sesame oil, lanolin, and mineral oil is rather comical. The third column, second row shows a Roman slave cheerfully toiling for days over a cauldron to get lanolin. I'll photograph the paper by itself sometime.

 

I don't dare open the bottle. I assume it smells like a combination of rancid sesame oil, rancid lanolin, and rancid mineral oil.

[thetracer]

I have always wondered, exactly what the high relief problems with the 21 were.

 

Is it a poor strike that makes the obverse hair over the ear so flat ??

 

 

[RWB]

Manufacturing standard silver dollars was hard on equipment and dies. The steel of the time could not tolerate much more than 150 tons per square inch of pressure and even that was far above the practical limit of about 120 tons.

 

At available pressure, the relief of central obverse and central reverse were too great to allow full metal flow into the design. The centers of the portrait and eagle are the most common placed of defective detail, but problems extended to lettering, rays and other details.

 

When the first 1921 Peace dollar were put into production, the engraver had pressure set well above normal in hopes of getting more detail. The designer was present on that day. But, as soon as striking began, so did the problems. The pressure was so high that steel dies failed catastrophically - they "exploded" rather than just cracking or collapsing. At the end of the day the engraver halted production, and after some tests the next day, resumed with reduced striking pressure - hence the poorly detailed coins common for 1921.

 

Only the first day's production were minimally acceptable to the designer or engraver. The coins with very good central detail AND fully formed letters and rays are the best that were made. Some of the pieces described as "proofs" don't have any more detail than good circulation coins and were probably not made on a medal press. - as are all proof coins of that era.

[RWB]

 

RE: VAM

 

Well -- now we know! That's why so many VAMpires sport the same hair style! I'll be careful on the next dark and stormy night.

[Nutmeg Coin]

Is there any online ID on the various 1921 varieties, and why don't the grading services attribute all those or do they?

 

 

[RWB]

VAMworld lists a bunch of die varieties. Is that what you mean?

[Nutmeg Coin]

Yes; is there a link?

[messydesk]

This is the last coin high relief proof struck as the dies were collapsing. John Dannreuther wrote an article in the May 2015 Numismatist about the evolution of the Peace dollar, which detailed the problems Roger was citing above. He has the mint correspondence that documents this as the 3200th and last coin struck and attesting to the die problems.

 

 

Is there any online ID on the various 1921 varieties, and why don't the grading services attribute all those or do they?

vamworld.com, go to Peace dollar varieties and select 1921. You'll see them all there with pictures . PCGS and NGC don't attribute them all because most are nothing special and they're not easy. ANACS will attribute them all as will I.