Greysheet changes

[Nutmeg Coin]

I was able to access Greysheet, weekly, monthly and quarterly yesterday, it looks like they are moving the monthly access forward to first week? Also many changes in the rare coins, mainly gold.

[physics-fan3.14]

I was able to access Greysheet, weekly, monthly and quarterly yesterday, it looks like they are moving the monthly access forward to first week? Also many changes in the rare coins, mainly gold.

 

Feigenbaum has been answering questions in a similar thread over on Cointalk. Perhaps this may help?

 

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/question-on-new-greysheet.274827/page-2#post-2364210

[Nutmeg Coin]

The price for the monthly option has nearly doubled due to increasing costs and overhead. It was just over $50 now at $89 for online access.

[RWB]

If they make the ceiling 8-feet instead of 9-feet, it will decrease the overhead....

[Afterword]

If they make the ceiling 8-feet instead of 9-feet, it will decrease the overhead....

 

 

 

This is so true - and much less labor intensive than raising the floor.

[RWB]

As long as the information is accurate - the best John and his associates can produce - it could be a bargain at $89.

[sc7000]

The price for 1yr subscrption sure jumped from $127 to 249.

[Raisethis2]

Now they need to create a widgets only page. Prices rarely move on common dollars, Lincolns and proof sets but $12 to download the weekly is two and a half times greater than before.

 

People in that end of the pool won't be buying at that price point IMO.

[RWB]

If you are doing coin transactions as a business, the subscription is just a cost of operation. Be glad it's available to help you make a profit.

[bstrauss3]

The price for 1yr subscrption sure jumped from $127 to 249.

 

Yes - John pointed out that printing and mailing those 52 issues a year cost them more than the $129 in income. It was raise the prices or go out of business.

[Nutmeg Coin]

Then why didn't they raise the fees when GS was in CA, supposedly a more expensive state to do business in? Internet access completely cuts out delivery fees. There are a lot of questions about the rapid increases, most small dealers I know are not making much in profits and there are huge resources online elsewhere for free.

[bstrauss3]

Two completely different businesses...

 

The old GS was, to say the least, static. Very, very little had changed (including many of the printed prices) in several years. 1990s web site, etc. I never did understand why people didn't buy the .pdf version and print the subset of pages they needed).

 

It's now a new business. And according to John it will be run as a business and that means running in the black.

 

The value is in the information, not the distribution of it.

[World Colonial]

The price for 1yr subscrption sure jumped from $127 to 249.

 

Yes - John pointed out that printing and mailing those 52 issues a year cost them more than the $129 in income. It was raise the prices or go out of business.

 

I subscribe to a financial newsletter which runs $239/yr. They kept the cost down by eliminating the printed version about 10-15 years ago and the price to my knowledge is unchanged from 1979 when it was first published.

 

Seems to me that they could have one price for the printed version and another for electronic if this is the real reason. I can see that dealers need it. As a collector if I collected US coins, I'd pass and rely on the Heritage archives instead.

[bstrauss3]

I think they will do that - eventually. Whether as a surcharge for print or a discount for electronic, only time and revenue will tell. I also expect it to be a gradual evolution. Given the audience, I always expected that the electronic version was a small % of sales and almost an afterthought. Along with the 1990 website design.

 

Electronic distribution also allows alternative packaging.

 

Personally, I would love a 4-issues/year hobbiest pack with everything arranged in denomination order. Pdf only so I can search it on my tablet, larger font and white space. And print only the page or pages I need to carry.

 

All of which is easier to do with today's electronic tools.

[bourse28]

Their huge price increase coupled with the fact PCGS CF is free triggered me to drop the CDN. Since I base my offers, bidding on what I think I can sell an item for CF and CW are my reference points now. I plan to take the savings and buy a nice coin. CF reports auction history with drill down to the actual con in many instances. The only subscription fee I want now is the monthly edition of CW at $19.95 per year,

 

I do buy Currency reference books on USPM like the Krause Std Catalog of US Currency.

[bourse28]

The price for the monthly option has nearly doubled due to increasing costs and overhead. It was just over $50 now at $89 for online access.

 

Yes absolutely, dropped subscription especially now CF is free.

[RWB]

Are the PCGS and Graysheet data comparable? Seems to me that Graysheet has dedicated staff to do one thing very well.

 

[bstrauss3]

I'm amused at the turn in this thread... usually the complaint is that the PCGS values are unrealistically high. Oh and that auction results aren/t valid for every-day coins.

[Nutmeg Coin]

Many of NGC's listed coin prices are almost never achieved at auction or private sale unless there is some unusual factor involved. But I have found their links to auctions useful, though not comprehensive. Hopefully CDN is including all available results in with their updated pricing.

[bstrauss3]

I think they are. When I pointed John at some out of date prices along with some recent sales, the prices were adjusted. Not all the way up - Greysheet is supposed to be wholesale prices. It wasn't a knee-jerk reaction, they had clearly pulled in additional information.

[bourse28]

PCGS made a brilliant move making CF free. They even include population data in their inventory manager with drill down to CF. Also included is auction data with drilldown.

 

When will NGC match in their inventory / collection manager with something similar? I use the NGC collection manager for my NGC coins but do not see a population option on the list of report options.

 

I was sitting on the fence between subscribing to CDN or CF. CF becoming free and CDN price increase (almost double?) made the decision easy for me to say goodbye to the CDN.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jedinite]

Despite its cost, faults and limitations, I have never found any other service to be as accurate, across the board, for the true market, as CDN. Unless things have changed of late, the value, to me, of the PCGS and NGC sites is the ability to search for actual coin sales. The other general listings are super high retail, as is Coin World. Am I missing out on better, new information?

[bourse28]

CDN is wholesale and not a retail price guide like CW or the TPG guides which list Market Value. These values are compiled from many sources by the relative market analysts.

 

Any offer or bid I make on a coin or banknote is based on a percentage of what I think I can sell it for, consequently MV a very important stat.

 

I can see where CDN would be a must for a wholesaler at a show (I know of a dealer or two who do this, mostly bulk material) who sells primarily to dealers, but I am not a wholesaler and do not sell at those prices. For many better issues, one will have to pay above CDN to get it in a wholesale transaction even.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jedinite]

It would appear that some of us have a different definition of "market value" To me, that term is whatever a willing buyer and willing seller agrees the value to be in an open sales transaction. The reality is that most of the value lists are higher, across the board, than what any given coin can be purchased for in any given grade. This is true across many different hobby value guides...baseball cards, as an example, where real prices are a small % of true value.

 

To me, the real "market value" is the value at which you can walk around a bourse floor at a large coin show and purchase a coin or, conversely, the sale value at a large public auction (Heritage, for instance). Call it wholesale or retail, it is what it is. My experience is that CDN is, generally speaking, much more in tune with those values than PCGS, Coin World, etc., which are universally too high..."retail", if you so choose to call it.

[World Colonial]

It would appear that some of us have a different definition of "market value" To me, that term is whatever a willing buyer and willing seller agrees the value to be in an open sales transaction. The reality is that most of the value lists are higher, across the board, than what any given coin can be purchased for in any given grade. This is true across many different hobby value guides...baseball cards, as an example, where real prices are a small % of true value.

 

To me, the real "market value" is the value at which you can walk around a bourse floor at a large coin show and purchase a coin or, conversely, the sale value at a large public auction (Heritage, for instance). Call it wholesale or retail, it is what it is. My experience is that CDN is, generally speaking, much more in tune with those values than PCGS, Coin World, etc., which are universally too high..."retail", if you so choose to call it.

 

I agree with your definition.

 

Since I do not collect US coins, I presume a source such as CDN can be accurate for "generic" common coins which are frequently sold mostly as "widgets". There are many coins which do not have a "retail" value or where there isn't a clear distinction between "wholesale" and "retail".

 

There is an article in the Coin Week archives written by Greg Reynolds (aka, Analyst on the PCGS forum) where he claims or appears to claim that there is both for essentially any coin. I disagree with this opinion for the most expensive coins or coins which hardly ever sell because they aren't typically sold by dealers.

 

For the coins I collect, I buy mostly from auctions, primarily Heritage, Sedwick and Calico now. I have seen more coins in my series in dealer inventory recently but for most part, it is one I previously saw from auctions I follow.

 

In these instances, I am willing to let the dealer take the risk of buying an ungraded coin and paying a premium for it later in an NGC or PCGS holder. A "reasonable" premium. Typically though, I see the handful of dealers who offer them asking what I consider exorbitant premiums. This is why I almost always choose to compete against them at auction instead of buying from them. Whether the prices in this instance are "retail" or " "wholesale" I don't know or care. I set my limit and bid accordingly.

[Nutmeg Coin]

The latest (July) monthly shows Saints and other type gold going down, with a basal level of $1265 in XF! I hope this is just a pre-holiday weekend error as even Rarcoa is paying more than those levels.

 

Also a dealer who gets GS week after week was chagrined that CDN apparently is not showing all minuses, so you are left to follow price adjustments yourself. In 2016 with phenomenal technological tools available? I hope they get these glitches straightened out.

[physics-fan3.14]

The latest (July) monthly shows Saints and other type gold going down, with a basal level of $1265 in XF! I hope this is just a pre-holiday weekend error as even Rarcoa is paying more than those levels.

 

Also a dealer who gets GS week after week was chagrined that CDN apparently is not showing all minuses, so you are left to follow price adjustments yourself. In 2016 with phenomenal technological tools available? I hope they get these glitches straightened out.

 

There has been significant volatility in gold prices since Brexit. I don't know when the CDN prices were locked/published, but it is very possible that a monthly newsletter may be a couple of weeks out of date - especially with significant unforeseen international upheavals.

[RWB]

Too bad it isn't a couple of weeks out of date -- ahead.

[EleMint Man]

I'd like to know why Grey Sheet only lists up to MS66 prices in most cases. With that said, I find Numismedia and Coin World quite helpful in placing a dollar value on most U.S coins out there. Being able to see price values from G-PR70 is a big plus imo. Coin World is generally more stringent on pricing....but not always! I often average the price values of the two and subtract 25% to get a close approximation of a wholesale price. Doesn't take very long if you have the links saved and it's free! Heritage is also a good source showing what their coins sold for and all the major price indexes. PCGS and NGC come in handy to try and determine the "Grey" area with + designations which I feel there should be a lot more of. Also their pop report can be valuable in the pricing "Equation".

 

http://www.numismedia.com/index.shtml

 

http://www.coinprices.org/

 

http://www.numismedia.com/benefits.shtml

...

 

http://www.coinworld.com/coinvalues.html

 

....

[EleMint Man]

Also, the average pricing of coins in the $10--$2,000 selling on eBay are usually in sync with Numismedia values with the "Deals" marked 15%---25% below.. Be interesting to see a value index on toning along with grade ie average, above average and superb!