Broke but sitting on a fortune in coins.
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I cannot be the only coin collector who has experience this. My favorite is I know a family in the backwoods that is P-O-O-R but they have an old coin collection from their Grandfather that is includes 30 or so Double Eagles. I know there is at least one VF 1892-P in there because I examined it. The rest are mostly common St. Gaudens with a lot of 1908 and 1909.

 

I am sure there are even more coins than that but they don't tell me much.

 

Want to know how many coins they have sold to me?

 

None.

 

I am not pushy but if you are broke as glass fired out of a cannon and are sitting on $40000 plus in coins maybe you should consider letting some of the family heirloom go. I have to admit I really respect the fact they won't let them go. None of them collect or know a darn thing about numismatics but they have no desire to sell a single one.

 

 

On a less extreme example I know a guy in rural New York who inherited a awesome collection who is middle class but he has zero interest in coins and is not shy about selling them but instead of just selling them he will sell a few at a time. I have bought a few nice Trade Dollars and even a FR02 Chain Cent from him but every time I ask for more and he says "I am just busy and will get around to it at some point". It has been 3 maybe 4 years now and he still only sells a few at a time all the while telling me how much he wants to get rid of them and how he is tired of paying for the 2 large SDBs at the bank.

 

 

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I have zero interest in sitting on treasures, been there done that, glad I moved on. I would rather send valuables to the marketplace if they give others pleasure and put the money to good use for real charities or good work projects. "The parable of the talents". Frozen or buried talents are useless. An effect of greed. So the grandfather died sitting on his little treasure trove now his next of kin are making the same mistake.

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Give it time, in the relatively near future, I expect many forced sellers, whether these people are currently poor or not.

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It is possible these 'poor' people still are comfortable and getting by. Maybe if they get to the point of disconnection notices and having trouble eating, the chunks of metal will not mean so much to them.

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I think it's honorable

 

mark

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Nothing wrong with being proud or sentimental.

 

Some just fall in love with what they have and can't part with it.

 

As long as wife and kids are taken care of and other bills paid; I see nothing wrong with it, if it gives one pleasure.

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^

I'm not very sentimental about my own things, but I can see why you would want to keep that in the family. But at least keep it well protected!

 

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These people are probably comfortable with their modest life style. They probably consider this an insurance policy against hard times and helps them sleep at night knowing that it's there in case of an emergency.

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Family disputes over heirlooms are common. Sometimes the distribution of assets makes no sense. Family members might know that you have special interests or expertise. It doesn't matter.

 

When my grandmother's estate was being broken up, my father gave coins to my cousins. I had buy whatever coins that were in my grandmother's holdings that I wanted. I sold some of the coins to dealers on behalf of the estate, and I got a commission for doing that from the family.

 

My grandmother had a set of wooden pieces from the 1876 Centennial celebration in Philadelphia. I knew they were in the estate, but I never got a crack at them. Years later I bought one of those sets for myself. Sometimes you have accept that fact that as a family member, you are the last in line. You are better off buying the coins elsewhere if you really want examples of them.

 

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Nothing wrong with being proud or sentimental.

 

Some just fall in love with what they have and can't part with it.

 

As long as wife and kids are taken care of and other bills paid; I see nothing wrong with it, if it gives one pleasure.

 

Agree except that the problem is that many currently think they can afford to keep what they own under adverse economic circumstances when in actuality, they cannot. There is a big distinction between having the money to buy something or as included in this instance, being able to afford to keep what you already have.

 

Others here might remember that one thread last year fitting this description which drew numerous responses; a forced sale due to liquidity constraints. I suspect this is more common than many believe. In 2008-2009 when the financial markets practically fell apart, the only thing that almost certainly prevented much greater involuntary selling was that this financial stress was temporary.

 

The next time, I don't believe it will be which was what I was alluding to in my prior post here.

 

On PCGS recently, someone mentioned that coins valued over $5,000 are usually in "strong hands". Don't remember the specific context but don't believe this is remotely true today.

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It doesn't matter if they are poor or middle income, if they don't want to sell, there is very little that anyone can do about it.

 

Chris

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"poor" is a very subjective term. Far to subjective to be determined by you to be an absolute in my opinion.

 

I would have found greater substance in the story if you had claimed instead - "I perceive them as being poor".

 

 

It is possible these 'poor' people still are comfortable and getting by.

 

Yep! I bet there are many folks that are overextended badly yet one might consider them to be "rich' while looking from the outside.

 

 

 

 

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"poor" is a very subjective term. Far to subjective to be determined by you to be an absolute in my opinion.

 

I would have found greater substance in the story if you had claimed instead - "I perceive them as being poor".

 

 

It is possible these 'poor' people still are comfortable and getting by.

 

Yep! I bet there are many folks that are overextended badly yet one might consider them to be "rich' while looking from the outside.

 

 

 

 

I understand your point but this family in Kentucky is poor. I am talking everybody on the entire family is on massive government assistance and the local church takes donations for them every Sunday poor.

 

 

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I have an outside thought.

 

Lets say they have two mortgages out on their $60,000 home and can't make the payments on that, their $70,000 cars or their $100,000 medical bills. $40,000 in liquid cash will just be taken from them soon where ifnthey can do the capitalistic thing they'll declare bankruptcy, walk away from some a good portion of their debts, restructure others and then have $40,000.

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"poor" is a very subjective term. Far to subjective to be determined by you to be an absolute in my opinion.

 

I would have found greater substance in the story if you had claimed instead - "I perceive them as being poor".

 

 

It is possible these 'poor' people still are comfortable and getting by.

 

Yep! I bet there are many folks that are overextended badly yet one might consider them to be "rich' while looking from the outside.

 

 

 

 

I understand your point but this family in Kentucky is poor. I am talking everybody on the entire family is on massive government assistance and the local church takes donations for them every Sunday poor.

 

 

Hmm,

Maybe it is you that is the poor one here in your post.

Lacking some way in something this Kentucky family has that all your money can't buy. :)

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a99238_ED5D376D59505D5C7F26EC398B4.jpg

 

Hetty Green was a familiar and sad sight who walked the streets of New York. With her grim face and strange dress, everyone took pity on the poor woman who was known as “The Witch of Wall Street.” What the populace didn't know is that Hetty was worth $3.8 billion (in today's dollars).

 

 

Just saying .......

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by wdrob

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"poor" is a very subjective term. Far to subjective to be determined by you to be an absolute in my opinion.

 

I would have found greater substance in the story if you had claimed instead - "I perceive them as being poor".

 

 

It is possible these 'poor' people still are comfortable and getting by.

 

Yep! I bet there are many folks that are overextended badly yet one might consider them to be "rich' while looking from the outside.

 

 

 

 

I understand your point but this family in Kentucky is poor. I am talking everybody on the entire family is on massive government assistance and the local church takes donations for them every Sunday poor.

 

 

Hmm,

Maybe it is you that is the poor one here in your post.

Lacking some way in something this Kentucky family has that all your money can't buy. :)

 

 

Like extremely ignorance and bigotry? They have routinely told me that tens of millions of arabs and Mexicans are going to flood into Texas and a race war is going to break out.

 

 

 

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"poor" is a very subjective term. Far to subjective to be determined by you to be an absolute in my opinion.

 

I would have found greater substance in the story if you had claimed instead - "I perceive them as being poor".

 

 

It is possible these 'poor' people still are comfortable and getting by.

 

Yep! I bet there are many folks that are overextended badly yet one might consider them to be "rich' while looking from the outside.

 

 

 

 

I understand your point but this family in Kentucky is poor. I am talking everybody on the entire family is on massive government assistance and the local church takes donations for them every Sunday poor.

 

 

Hmm,

Maybe it is you that is the poor one here in your post.

Lacking some way in something this Kentucky family has that all your money can't buy. :)

 

 

Like extremely ignorance and bigotry? They have routinely told me that tens of millions of arabs and Mexicans are going to flood into Texas and a race war is going to break out.

 

 

 

If they are correct and that does happen then those Double Eagles might just come in handy after all

 

mark

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I suppose the government should seize their property, auction it off, and use the funds to get them the things they apparently don't want. After all, it would be for their own good.

 

Pesky thing about property rights...... What others do with their things is really nobody's business but their own.

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"poor" is a very subjective term. Far to subjective to be determined by you to be an absolute in my opinion.

 

I would have found greater substance in the story if you had claimed instead - "I perceive them as being poor".

 

 

It is possible these 'poor' people still are comfortable and getting by.

 

Yep! I bet there are many folks that are overextended badly yet one might consider them to be "rich' while looking from the outside.

 

 

 

 

I understand your point but this family in Kentucky is poor. I am talking everybody on the entire family is on massive government assistance and the local church takes donations for them every Sunday poor.

 

 

Hmm,

Maybe it is you that is the poor one here in your post.

Lacking some way in something this Kentucky family has that all your money can't buy. :)

 

 

Like extremely ignorance and bigotry? They have routinely told me that tens of millions of arabs and Mexicans are going to flood into Texas and a race war is going to break out.

 

 

 

You are peeved that you can not exploit a situation that will possibly benefit you, that involves a family that is in your opinion extremely ignorant and bigots, and you do so under the guise of a belief that if they would only sell to you, they can lift their monetary status from dirt poor to dirt fair, but still be ignorant and bigots? (shrug) Just a slight tidbit; the number of persons on Government subsistence that have no economic or social or health reason for receiving subsistence is astounding. I am sure they would not sell you anything, either. They don't need to. It almost seems your preference is to exploit the poor extremely ignorant bigots on subsistence instead of the the educated non-poor on subsistence.

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Close to half the people get assistance buying food in US by the government. Maybe the /socialist/communist party can start taking things away from people in exchange for giving them stuff they need to live.

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I suppose the government should seize their property, auction it off, and use the funds to get them the things they apparently don't want. After all, it would be for their own good.

 

Pesky thing about property rights...... What others do with their things is really nobody's business but their own.

 

It is until you start living off tax payer money and only work part time jobs here and there.

 

I mean are you guys kidding? You think it is ok for a family to sit around, feed off welfare, continue having children, receive more welfare but refuse to sell assets worth substantial money.

 

What if instead of a bunch of Double Eagles they just had straight cash sitting in their safe? Maybe they have a ton of stock just sitting around?

 

It is ok for them to take from taxpayers then?

 

You guys are nuts.

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I once knew of a retired coin dealer whose collection sold at auction for $2 million after his death. While he was alive he was looking for property tax abatements and public assistance.

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I once knew of a retired coin dealer whose collection sold at auction for $2 million after his death. While he was alive he was looking for property tax abatements and public assistance.

 

That is the stuff I am talking about. Just crazy.

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I have an outside thought.

 

Lets say they have two mortgages out on their $60,000 home and can't make the payments on that, their $70,000 cars or their $100,000 medical bills. $40,000 in liquid cash will just be taken from them soon where ifnthey can do the capitalistic thing they'll declare bankruptcy, walk away from some a good portion of their debts, restructure others and then have $40,000.

 

That $40K worth of gold would be considered part of their assets for sure. They could hide it in asset declaration, but who are they going to sell $40K worth of coins to that isn't going to report their purchase to the IRS? I'm sure these individuals exist. But they're far and few between.

 

 

....broke as glass fired out of a cannon.....

 

....hilarious.

 

Personally, my opinion here is that the cash is more valuable. Or I guess, I'd say the cash is would be more valuable to me for sure. And if the point of owning gold is as a hedge for a rainy day...and the family's days are as rainy as you say...then it would make perfect sense to me to sell. But whatever, it's private property. They can do whatever they want with it.

 

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As part of any welfare, disability, state or federal assistance based on the recipients being below the poverty threshold as well as disclosing all their assets, clearly the initial paperwork for getting that type of government help requires a thorough disclosure of assets, failure to do so would be fraud with all types of penalties. Lawyers can be quite artful in shielding assets through trusts, etc.. And tangible assets are hard for the government to quantify and attach judgments to until after they are liquidated as others have pointed out. In most government housing, for example, any windfalls would be taxed at 1/3. There are many people gaming the system on the top and bottom through sharp lawyers, etc.. Many of the richest use trust ruses to avoid taxes: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-09-12/how-wal-mart-s-waltons-maintain-their-billionaire-fortune-taxes

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Yes, there are potential abuses in this scenario of multiple government and non-governmental forms of welfare. That's one reason most welfare programs are such a bad idea from the get-go. They are never monitored effectively and the funds only sometimes go where the need is the greatest.

 

The problem comes from just exactly how we police all of that. Mandatory national registration of assets? Mandatory governmental inspections & audits? Other countries have been down that rabbit hole and the end result isn't pretty.

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Plus the state and federal government give "finder's fees" to those who report scammers; personally I would never accept a red cent doing so, I might do it if the violators were particularly egregious or posed a threat.

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