Questioning Registry Points posted by The Argentum Collector

[CSJournals-migration]

I recently added a new coin to my Tokelau Lunar coins registry set and noticed the low registry points assigned to this rare coin.

 

The coin in question is the Tokelau 2015 Year of the Goat Gilt PF 69 UC ER. This coin had a very limited mintage of just 1,000 and has a low NGC registry population of only 349 but only received 320 registry points.

 

I question the points assigned because another coin in the set the Tokelau 2015 Year of the Goat Reverse Proof PF 69 ER which had a much higher mintage of 50,000 and has a higher NGC registry population of 499 received 551 registry points.

 

How does a coin with a mintage of 50,000 and a higher registry population receive 231 more points than a coin with a mintage of 1,000 and a lower registry population?

 

Personally I wish the much more rare foreign coins would receive more points in the registry, but I realize this is a hobby dominated by US coins (which have mintages up to 100,000x more than comparable foreign coins). However discrepancies such as this need to be rectified....

 

See more journals by The Argentum Collector

[RWB]

Over 1/3 of the entire production has been authenticated and graded -- that's why the low point score. Now if you buy 500 of the NCLT things and melt them, you might get more points for what is left...then, again, you might not. 'Tis a puzzlement.

[Mr Bo Jingles]

I know you have probably received feedback like this before, but it isn't a rare coin. Just because a coin has a low mintage does not make it rare. Also, a large portion of the entire population of that coin is going to grade high if people even send it in. I have a few Canadian issues in the safe right now that have low mintages and I don't consider them rare at all.

 

A huge factor in considering rarity is how many of the original population survived? In your case it's all of them. In the case of say, 1885 CC Morgan? It started low and got much lower due to melts. There is no sure way of even knowing what the surviving pop is on most Morgans because they were melted in mass. That also means the population of high graded coins will likely stay pretty close to where it is while your new issue could (relatively speaking) explode at that grade.

 

I know you love your bullion and I've read your posts, but they aren't in the same category as collecting high grade circulation issues and never will be.

 

Are the points that important to you anyway? I collect coins because I love coins and not to watch where in the ranks my name is.

 

Happy Collecting!

[Six Mile Rick]

Mr. Bo Jingles is correct!!

 

First check --- POPULATION

Second check --- Suspected Survivors

 

I got a great trade on a 1878 1/4 eagle last week. Simply check survivors and you would understand why a nice raw of that date would trade for ??X's melt.

[DCZAN]

I was simply pointing out the disparity in points assigned to comparative coins. I collect because I love the diversity and art of foreign coins. What I enjoy most about the hobby is the hunt and the excitement of finding the specific coin you were searching for!

 

I have to disagree with your statement about a coin with a mintage of 1,000 not being rare. You used Morgans as an example which had mintages upwards of 85,000,000 per year. Within my collection I have a Morgan dollar set that currently contains 13 blast white Morgans and I have a set of Kookaburras containing 15 high grade coins. Believe me it was MUCH easier to assemble the Morgan set!

 

As I stated this is a hobby dominated by collectors of much more heavily minted and available US coins, so I understand your perspective.

[Mr Bo Jingles]

DCZAN, you're looking at this through greased up glasses. Look at Six Mile Rick's statement again.

 

Also, you can have a total mintage of 250 coins and have it not be rare.

 

And you have NO idea what you are talking about regarding Morgans. While it might not be impossible to collect a set, it is VERY difficult to collect a high graded set because of availability and price.

 

If you want to get right down to the nitty gritty, what you are collecting are just coins in the sense they are round and made of metal. They have no history, high grade examples are abundant (like every frigging one) and 25 years from now anything under a perfect 70 will pretty much only be worth spot.

 

Please don't even try to compare modern bullion to our country's historic coins. It is sophomoric.

[MarkFeld]

DCZAN, you're looking at this through greased up glasses. Look at Six Mile Rick's statement again.

 

Also, you can have a total mintage of 250 coins and have it not be rare.

 

And you have NO idea what you are talking about regarding Morgans. While it might not be impossible to collect a set, it is VERY difficult to collect a high graded set because of availability and price.

 

If you want to get right down to the nitty gritty, what you are collecting are just coins in the sense they are round and made of metal. They have no history, high grade examples are abundant (like every frigging one) and 25 years from now anything under a perfect 70 will pretty much only be worth spot.

 

Please don't even try to compare modern bullion to our country's historic coins. It is sophomoric.

 

I think he had a good question about a different modern coin, which has not been answered:

 

"How does a coin with a mintage of 50,000 and a higher registry population receive 231 more points than a coin with a mintage of 1,000 and a lower registry population?"

 

 

 

[DCZAN]

Mr Bo Jingles....You seem to be the one with greased up glasses. I don't claim to be and expert at numismatics and I don't mean to downplay your collection of Morgans (it is VERY impressive and extremely valuable) but you have to look at the FACTS: Morgans are by no means rare, even in high grade. The market is saturated with with hundreds of millions of Morgan dollars, the total mintage of Morgans was 570,272,610....that's more than half a BILLION! Sure millions were melted but there is still over 300,000,000 out there. The NGC and PCGS registries are saturated with MILLIONS of graded Morgans and tens of thousands of these are high grades with MILLIONS more STILL to be graded. Go to any coin shop and you will find many grades of Morgan dollars, log on to eBay and you will find thousands and thousands of them in a wide variety of grades. You can not say this about modern foreign coins. Rare is a term you can use to describe very few Morgan dollars (Peace dollars are actually more rare than Morgans). If you want to get down to the nitty gritty, what you are collecting is widely available and collected in hoards!

 

Your knowledge of the foreign coin market is simply nonexistent. Your statement that a coin with a total mintage of 250 is not rare is simply foolish. You say that 25 years from now any modern bullion coin under a perfect 70 will be worth spot. I give you this: spot silver is currently under $16 and my 28 year old 1987 MS 69 Chinese Panda which had a mintage of 31,000 and has a total registry population of only 995 is rare and selling for over $500 and continually rising. Your definition of rare must be different than mine. Foreign coins are minted in vastly fewer quantities with the majority of them staying in their home country and the market reflects this....a 5 year old 2010 Chinese Panda Year of the Dragon MS 63 is far more rare and almost twice as valuable (mintage of 66,000 and value of $100.00) than a 94 year old 1921 MS 63 Morgan dollar (mintage of 86,730,000 and valued at $58.00).

 

Not sure how my question about registry points turned into a debate?! I say we simply agree to disagree and time will tell. Happy collecting, be well.

 

 

 

 

[Mr Bo Jingles]

I would take a high grade common Morgan over a PF70 graded piece of bullion.

 

Also, you speak but you don't listen. There may be as little as 30% of the Morgans minted remaining on the planet. Your bullion will be gathering dust forever.

 

History vs Hilarity.

 

For me the choice is easy.

 

Collect what you want, but educate yourself. Try Morgan history first and then come back and point counter point me.

 

Have a nice day!

[Six Mile Rick]

Modern coin outlook;

 

Coin X = 1000 coins minted with 450 PF70UC's --- points = 250 (low collected volume)

Coin A = 100,000 coins minted with 150 PF70UC's--points = 375 (high collected volume)

Coin C = 1,000,000 coins with 1,000 PF70UC's-----points = 125 (high collected volume)

 

Small collector base for coin X leaves many extras unwanted. Coin A suppose it is a highly collected series and there is only 150 so they are harder to obtain. Coin C there are plenty and will be plenty in the future.

 

If you are so interested in POINTS --- WHY do you collect PF69UC's? PF70UC is the top pop and best point value for your dollar. Same goes for future selling --- PF70UC's are easier to liquidate.

 

HONESTLY THOUGH ---- Worrying about points for coins in a set I am building is never a thought ( strike, luster, eye appeal ). My main concern is getting the best or a better upgrade later to finally complete a set I wish to have or complete.

 

---- I am pushing towards a total of a 1000 count graded coin collection and VERY close to 400,000 points. Soon to find a seat in the TOP 200 collectors in the club. The coins come and go as do the points. I just enjoy building the sets!! (my sets ---- and my friends sets as well)

 

Just My Opinion

 

HAPPY COIN COLLECTING!!

[RWB]

But --- I have coin B.... Nobody wants it....

[DCZAN]

HONESTLY THOUGH ---- I made this post with one simple question: "How does a coin with a mintage of 50,000 and a higher registry population receive 231 more points than a coin with a mintage of 1,000 and a lower registry population?"

 

I never stated my sole goal or concern was points, I never wanted to debate Morgans vs. Modern coins, nor was I looking to be ridiculed.

 

I think I'll just avoid any further posts, as this is just ridiculous and really subtracts from the experience of collecting.

 

[Six Mile Rick]

But --- I have coin B.... Nobody wants it....

 

Interested in a trade ?

 

DCZAN, Sorry I could not help you. I am hard to understand at times.

Good Luck,

Rick

[Six Mile Rick]

HONESTLY THOUGH ---- I made this post with one simple question: "How does a coin with a mintage of 50,000 and a higher registry population receive 231 more points than a coin with a mintage of 1,000 and a lower registry population?"

 

I never stated my sole goal or concern was points, I never wanted to debate Morgans vs. Modern coins, nor was I looking to be ridiculed.

 

I think I'll just avoid any further posts, as this is just ridiculous and really subtracts from the experience of collecting.

 

No ridicule intended. Simply a question and an explanation on my collecting.

 

I apologize if you were offended from my statements.

 

Rick

[coinsbygary]

The following is my personal take on points:

 

1. The method NGC uses to assign points is proprietary and a closely guarded secret. Thus, any of the explanations that have been given in this thread are purely guesses and opinions.

2. You can ask NGC to review and adjust their registry sets for higher points and NGC may raise the point value, leave the value the same, or in some cases lower the value. All this and NO explanation for their actions. Since you are not privy to NGC's methods, you take a real chance when you ask them to raise point values.

3. As for the competitive nature of the registry what difference does the amount of points make as long as they are fairly assigned within a particular registry set to everyone that has one.

4. Personally, I use the point system to gage the QUALITY of the coins in my sets. Thus, it is a great tool for me to measure my own progress and target certain coins for upgrades.

5. The overall points for the individual user are pointless. Currently I am in the upper 400's among all the collectors with sets, big deal! Really, what good is that except as a tool to measure personal progress. Ultimately, I will never be in the top tiers of collectors because I can't compete with the amount of money other people spend on their collections, so why try?

6. There are times that I scratch my head over the points system, but in the end I just go on and collect what I want and leave it at that. The registry and collection manager are great tools to organize and catalog your coins. That to me is the advantage of the registry.

Gary

[RWB]

"The overall points for the individual user are pointless."

 

Do you think they will adjust the points at a needle factory?

[Mr. Smith Guesser]

 

1. The method NGC uses to assign points is proprietary and a closely guarded secret. Thus, any of the explanations that have been given in this thread are purely guesses and opinions.

 

It seems to me that NGC generally assigns points based on a coin's value in their price guide...the higher the value, the more points that are generally assigned. (But yes, this is just speculation on my part.)