Roosevelt Dimes Series and March of Dimes Issue

[erwindoc]

With the pending mint release of the two proof dimes, what do you think it will do to collector interest in the whole set?

[physics-fan3.14]

I'm not familiar with this release. You got a link or something for more info/pics?

[Elbesaar]

I think it'll have the same effect as the 96-W.

 

I'm hoping it generates lots of interest though !!

 

[World Colonial]

With the pending mint release of the two proof dimes, what do you think it will do to collector interest in the whole set?

 

By whole set, I presume you mean the FDR dime series, proofs or circulation strikes. If this is your question, virtually none with existing collectors that I can see generally. .

 

Why would it cause collectors to like something more they don't particularly like now? And since it's apparent most don't care for the FDR dime, why would they collect the series even if they buy these two coins?

 

Another question. How much of a difference have special issue coins in other modern series made to its popularity? From what I can see, going by the price data, it only temporarily did so with Washington quarters. The Lincoln cent was already very popular prior to the centennial. For the nickels and dollars, I don't know but I do know that both remain near the bottom of the preference scale, which is where both were before.

 

If prior special issues increased specialist interest with other modern denominations, I can see that this number will or may increase, but not otherwise. I don't know if it did.

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

With the pending mint release of the two proof dimes, what do you think it will do to collector interest in the whole set?

 

By whole set, I presume you mean the FDR dime series, proofs or circulation strikes. If this is your question, virtually none with existing collectors that I can see generally. .

 

Why would it cause collectors to like something more they don't particularly like now? And since it's apparent most don't care for the FDR dime, why would they collect the series even if they buy these two coins?

 

Another question. How much of a difference have special issue coins in other modern series made to its popularity? From what I can see, going by the price data, it only temporarily did so with Washington quarters. The Lincoln cent was already very popular prior to the centennial. For the nickels and dollars, I don't know but I do know that both remain near the bottom of the preference scale, which is where both were before.

 

If prior special issues increased specialist interest with other modern denominations, I can see that this number will or may increase, but not otherwise. I don't know if it did.

 

I have not noticed that collectors don't particularly like he series. It is not apparent to me that most don't care for it; I assume you mean the Series. If you are referring to the new Release, I guess that is possible, but it is not apparent, an I have heard may positive comments. I guess we travel in different circles, and are influenced accordingly concerning on perceptions.

[World Colonial]

I have not noticed that collectors don't particularly like he series. It is not apparent to me that most don't care for it; I assume you mean the Series. If you are referring to the new Release, I guess that is possible, but it is not apparent, an I have heard may positive comments. I guess we travel in different circles, and are influenced accordingly concerning on perceptions.

 

Yes, I was referring to the series since this is what my comments covered.

 

As to why I conclude it, I use the same reasoning I used in the past when discussing this subject before, whether it is for moderns generally, in the Ike thread, in the Washington quarters thread and even with coins I collect (South Africa) on the BoB forum.

 

If collectors generally like these coins, outside of specialization, why are both the prices and the census counts so low relative to other US coins?

 

And even with specialization, except for an isolated coin such as the "no S" proof dimes, why are the prices within specialization also lower than most others? For these coins, I can't tell you what most of them are worth but this is what I have noticed with "grade rarities" on Heritage.

 

For the series generically, the availability has the most influence on the general price level because these coins are common across the board, except for specialization.

 

But even accounting for how available these coins are, it should be apparent that most collectors prefer to buy something else and that since they do, that a substantial percentage of those who do collect this series do so out of financial limitations. They like these coins but most almost certainly would actually also prefer to buy something else if they had the money.

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

I understand. I still think it is an extended assumption with a narrow basis to conclude proof of position.

 

Show after Show, I see collectors scoring Foodies, cents Jeffersons, etc.

 

No, I don't think it is apparent that collectors want to by something else. That is a generic statement that can apply to any Series. I don't have the confidence of absoluteness of lack of interest, based on my observations.

I wish I did sometimes, but I don't.

[World Colonial]

I understand. I still think it is an extended assumption with a narrow basis to conclude proof of position.

 

Show after Show, I see collectors scoring Foodies, cents Jeffersons, etc.

 

No, I don't think it is apparent that collectors want to by something else. That is a generic statement that can apply to any Series. I don't have the confidence of absoluteness of lack of interest, based on my observations.

I wish I did sometimes, but I don't.

 

How much most collectors like a coin is RELATIVE to others, not absolute. If you ask me if I like the FDR dime, it's an OK coin. Am I ever going to buy it? No, because there are about 100,000 other coins I would rather own, literally.

 

Does this make sense now? Most collectors don't have the money to buy everything they like. The price data and census counts make it obvious that most prefer to buy other coins, because if this weren't true, then the FDR dime would cost a lot more than it does relatively. This is how I conclude that most collectors would rather buy something else, whether they collect the FDR dime or not.

 

Or perhaps you think other collectors who don't buy the FDR dime now actually prefer it but don't buy it anyway?

 

If you do not understand this logic, then I don't think anything I write is going to make any difference.

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

I understand. I still think it is an extended assumption with a narrow basis to conclude proof of position.

 

Show after Show, I see collectors scoring Foodies, cents Jeffersons, etc.

 

No, I don't think it is apparent that collectors want to by something else. That is a generic statement that can apply to any Series. I don't have the confidence of absoluteness of lack of interest, based on my observations.

I wish I did sometimes, but I don't.

 

How much most collectors like a coin is RELATIVE to others, not absolute. If you ask me if I like the FDR dime, it's an OK coin. Am I ever going to buy it? No, because there are about 100,000 other coins I would rather own, literally.

 

Does this make sense now? Most collectors don't have the money to buy everything they like.u The price data and census counts make it obvious that most prefer to buy other coins, because info this weren't true, then the FDR dime would cost a lot more than it does relatively. This is how I conclude that most collectors would rather buy something else, whether they collect the FDR dime or not.

 

Or perhaps you think other collectors who don't buy the FDR dime now actually prefer it but don't buy it anyway?

 

If you do not understand this logic, then I don't think anything I write is going to make any difference.

 

OK.

 

You are correct.

[EZ_E]

I ordered 5 sets (back ordered until August) which I intend to send to NGC hoping for the "magical" 70 grade and then flip them on e-bay.

 

I agree with World Colonial, once the hype dies down, so will the interest in these coins just as the two low-mintage Jeffersons and one Kennedy half from the '90s are vastly underpriced, IMO, due to low collector interest for the series.

[Coindude]

Well hello there Mr Vic, long time no see.

[cpm9ball]

I ordered 5 sets (back ordered until August) which I intend to send to NGC hoping for the "magical" 70 grade and then flip them on e-bay.

 

I agree with World Colonial, once the hype dies down, so will the interest in these coins just as the two low-mintage Jeffersons and one Kennedy half from the '90s are vastly underpriced, IMO, due to low collector interest for the series.

 

Victor, I hope you have better luck than this guy on the CT forums.

 

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/dont-get-your-hopes-up-for-good-quality-on-the-roosevelt-dime-sets.263312/

 

Chris

[EZ_E]

What's happening there, guys? Yeah, I miss lots of you but our lives certainly take drastic turns in our journey.

 

YunYun, my beautiful wife of 8 years had a terrible car accident on March 1 and suffered traumatic brain injury. 9 out of 10 die from it. She was comatose and near death but, with love, support, encouragement and thousands of prayers, 9 weeks later, she is doing miraculously well! Probably at 80% now and still improving.

 

We even went to the seafood buffet at the Rio on her birthday May 5th.

 

Tried calling you before, Chris, but no response. p.s. thanks for the heads up on the coin set.

[Coindude]

Victor, my prayers are with you and your wonderful wife during this trying time. Come around more often, I know I for one miss ya!

[cpm9ball]

What's happening there, guys? Yeah, I miss lots of you but our lives certainly take drastic turns in our journey.

 

YunYun, my beautiful wife of 8 years had a terrible car accident on March 1 and suffered traumatic brain injury. 9 out of 10 die from it. She was comatose and near death but, with love, support, encouragement and thousands of prayers, 9 weeks later, she is doing miraculously well! Probably at 80% now and still improving.

 

We even went to the seafood buffet at the Rio on her birthday May 5th.

 

Tried calling you before, Chris, but no response. p.s. thanks for the heads up on the coin set.

 

Sorry, Victor! I have a really cheap phone, and it's not very reliable. I'll try to call you this weekend. Would day or night be best?

 

Chris

[EZ_E]

Anytime during the weekend, Chris. I work M-F days. I did talk with Tom Bush about a month ago. He and his family are all doing great!

702-421-5565

[EZ_E]

Victor, my prayers are with you and your wonderful wife during this trying time. Come around more often, I know I for one miss ya!

 

Thanks, brother! Bummer that our Texas trip didn't work out as planned a few years ago, o/w you'd have met YunYun.

[Coindude]

Victor, I still hope that maybe one day we can have that visit. Give Yun Yun my best.

[World Colonial]

I ordered 5 sets (back ordered until August) which I intend to send to NGC hoping for the "magical" 70 grade and then flip them on e-bay.

 

I agree with World Colonial, once the hype dies down, so will the interest in these coins just as the two low-mintage Jeffersons and one Kennedy half from the '90s are vastly underpriced, IMO, due to low collector interest for the series.

 

I believe you are referring to the 1998-S Kennedy which I thought was a "matte" proof but the Heritage archives list as a SP. My recollection is that the mintage was 30,000.

 

If this is the coin, I don't believe it is underpriced. Heritage shows recent sales between $100 and $150 in 69 and $270 to somewhat over $400 in 70. According to the Heritage archives, the combined count for this coin as of the last sale was 3722 and 847. My suspicion is that close to 99% of the original mintage still exists with almost all in grades above a 67 and if the current ratio is representative, at least several thousand in 70.

 

I don't see either of these prices as low.. I'm not sure what your reason is but the only one I can see is the supposedly low mintage. The mintage is low in an absolute sense but not considering the quality of the surviving specimens which is almost certainly most of them and which doesn't exist with any other coins except the more recent proofs and modern commemoratives.

 

If anyone looks at the entire US series, the only coins I know which sell at "high" prices with a large supply are recent classic "key" dates, an above average number but still proportionately low percentage of Morgan dollars and the 1995-W ASE, excluding gold where the value is disproportionately the metal content.

 

Outside of these coins, all others common issues to my knowledge disproportionately or entirely sell for prices which are comporable to or lower than this Kennedy half, even where the supply in equivalent quality is much less. Considering that the Kennedy half is universally considered much less popular than these other series, I would say its price is strong by those who favor it and overpriced by mine.

 

Expanding these thoughts to the Kennedy and other modern series, I don't see that interest is low either. It is only low above what most US collectors consider a nominal or low price level. As a guess, I believe somewhere between 50,000 and 200,000 active collectors exist for the FDR dime and the census counts are in the thousands for a few of the silver issues. By my standards, that is popular.

 

However, given the consensus perception and how common these coins actually are outside of narrow (and in my opinion, completely arbitrary) definitions of "rarity", I cannot think of a single reason why the price level should increase much at all except in isolation. I have covered my reasons in a lot of detail in other threads.

 

Contrary to what most US collectors seem to believe, the price level of far more popular but still very common classics is not high across the board either. It is high for the supply and versus "world" coins but not absolutely in the context of the US price structure.

 

With a mintage of 75,000 from a less popular series, I don't see that these two dimes are going to even match this 1998 half.

[EZ_E]

You make excellent points. I think that the mintage for the 1998 Kennedy was closer to 67K. One of the two Jefferson nickels that I mentioned had a mintage of only 25K. It was part of the coin and currency set. So, if the number of collectors of complete sets exceed their mintage then we would see major price escalations. However, In the 15 years that I have been following them, their prices have remained static.

But, then again, look at all of the extremely low mintage 19th century proof coins that are very reasonably priced.

But, it all boils down to demand, design appeal, marketing and hype. That is why I doubt that these two Roosevelt issues will do much beyond their initial hype. But, they will be a necessity for type collectors which will add to their demand, especially in PR70.

 

Coindude, someday, brother!

[cpm9ball]

I believe you are referring to the 1998-S Kennedy which I thought was a "matte" proof but the Heritage archives list as a SP. My recollection is that the mintage was 30,000.

 

I'm not sure what the mintage is, either, and I'm not sure if they are matte proof. I have two that must have been graded in the early days and the PCGS insert identifies them as MS69 - SMS.

 

Chris

[World Colonial]

I believe you are referring to the 1998-S Kennedy which I thought was a "matte" proof but the Heritage archives list as a SP. My recollection is that the mintage was 30,000.

 

I'm not sure what the mintage is, either, and I'm not sure if they are matte proof. I have two that must have been graded in the early days and the PCGS insert identifies them as MS69 - SMS.

 

Chris

 

This is what I saw on Heritage as well. I must be thinking of another coin.

[World Colonial]

Demand for the coin and currency set and type collecting will make some difference, but I believe disproportionately only at nominal prices. With a mintage of 75,000, I presume that the number of PR-70 will be proportionately large as it seems to be for the 1998-S half.

 

Here is some data I pulled from the Heritage archives to give everyone an idea of the relative preference for this series among larger budget collectors:

 

# of US coins @ $10,000+ = approximately 39,000

# Mercury dimes @$10,000+ = 524 (15 proofs)

# FDR dimes@ $10,000+ = 24

# of US coins $1k to $10k = approximately 392,000

# Mercury dimes $1k to $10k = 6271

# FDR dimes $1k to $10k = 495

 

Of the FDR dimes over $10k, ALL are proofs and most are 1968 "No S".

 

Of the 495 valued between $1k and $10k, 244 are proofs and 221 are MS. Of the proofs, I didn't look at all of them but the vast majority I saw are silver issues and "No S" clads.

[EZ_E]

Fascinating. I've never heard of such statistics before.

 

I'll follow through on the purchase of my five sets and see what happens just for fun.

 

I did score big on the 2008 RP 1oz gold coin. It came back PR70 from PCGS and I sold the entire set for $7K. (Y)

[Houston Investor]

When I think of the set I it is the 1946-1964 silver issues. The march of dimes issue may help the series. Generally coins in this series are tough to sell. The series is way overlooked and could have some sleepers.

[coinman_23885]

When I think of the set I it is the 1946-1964 silver issues. The march of dimes issue may help the series. Generally these are tough coins to sell. The series is way overlooked and could have some sleepers.

 

Do you mean sleepers in the silver or clad portion of the series?

[Houston Investor]

When I think of the set I it is the 1946-1964 silver issues. The march of dimes issue may help the series. Generally these are tough coins to sell. The series is way overlooked and could have some sleepers.

 

Do you mean sleepers in the silver or clad portion of the series?

 

The silver portion - high grade early dates.

[Kurtdog]

With the pending mint release of the two proof dimes, what do you think it will do to collector interest in the whole set?

Oh yes, I can't live without them! So buy your five sets and I'll pay anything you ask for the dimes and you can keep the filler-coin with the little baby on the back. You set your price, I'll pay it, even if I have to get a second mortgage on my house and send the kids out onto the street with tin cups and an accordion and a monkey just to get the money we need to continue to eat. BTW, where are you? Is this like a one shot and out? Is it a marketing survey? Are you tabulating the results? Do let us know how you make out. It's the least you can do. Yeah, we're dumb. You got that right. Thank you in advance!

[World Colonial]

When I think of the set I it is the 1946-1964 silver issues. The march of dimes issue may help the series. Generally coins in this series are tough to sell. The series is way overlooked and could have some sleepers.

 

The series is "overlooked" and hard to sell because practically all collectors like other coins better. In the entire US series, I rank the clad dimes second last, after small dollars. If categorized as a classic, the silver FDR appears to be last among all classics.

 

Looking at the PCGS census and Heritage archives, the prices are low relative to the US price level but I concurrently believe that even in MS-67, there are potentially a lot more for the silver than is apparent now. Some of the dates (like the 1948 which has a current count in 67 of 27 as FB) might surprise on the upside but i consider it the exception. Disproportionately, I believe any increase will be financially irrelevant.

 

The most I can say for this series is that for the collector who has a limited budget to work with and wants to pursue a full set from US coinage, it is one of the easiest to find and the cheapest to complete among classics.

 

It's apparent from the prices of the more expensive issues such as the "No S" proof dimes and the top registry sets that it has a very limited hard core following but nothing more.

 

The problem with this coin is that the design is overwhelmingly considered artistically inferior, it is a small coin and it is common, even by the standards of US collectors and within US coinage, never mind versus "world" coins. That isn't exactly a great combination which is going to inspire many collectors to like it.

 

Not sure you ever saw the thread covering "key" dates from last year. One of the points several of us made was that in the internet age, a coin like this one has to compete with every or practically every other coin in the world and it just isn't competitive..

 

It isn't like it was in 1975 when I started collecting. At that time, communication artificially limited the choices of practically every collector.

 

The FDR dime is in its 70th year. Longer term, the best way to increase its popularity is to replace design with something else.