Dealer Buy-Back Prices

[leeg]

Harry Laibstain was who I bought and sold too.

 

Sorry Harry but they say the truth shall set you free.

 

You really didn't help me in my time of need.

 

I believe in Karma, and you really lost some of that here.

 

 

[Nutmeg Coin]

I have heard good things only about Mr. Laibstain. This problem probably fits into a category as "what would you do?" As businesses are dealing with tough economic decisions on a daily basis with all the stresses of paying bills, maintaining their standards, keeping customers happy, and so forth, it is very hard to judge the two realities, on one hand a business trying to stay in the black and in another someone hit with an emergency expense. If you have extremely wealthy customers they will not be feeling the pain when paying high retail. Some people should not be stretching so much for numismatics unless it it giving them great joy, and they can afford to. Unfortunately there are few people around, unless you are married, to question your hobby purchases.

 

I have a friend who just lost his mother, I don't know who picked up the bills in the last 8 months of her care and the funeral expenses. Usually the family covers some of these, the government and private insurers can cover some of those costs. If one has limited assets and has to sell collectibles for emergencies then hopefully there will be better options than losing a lot of money.

[Walkerfan]

Harry Laibstain was who I bought and sold too.

 

Sorry Harry but they say the truth shall set you free.

 

You really didn't help me in my time of need.

 

I believe in Karma, and you really lost some of that here.

 

 

Thanks for the info. I've noticed before that most all of his sell prices are very HIGH. So you would think that the least he could do is offer decent buy prices. I guess that he wants ALL of the pie.

 

Leeg--I am very sorry to hear of your mother's passing and I offer my condolences. <3

[bochiman]

Just a question....

 

Lee - did you happen to watch and see if they placed it on their website, and if so, at what price?

I don't see it there now but didn't pay attention to before.

 

So, if they placed it at a price close to what you were paid back, that's one thing (that price + "normal" markup). If they placed it back up there close to what you paid for it originally (or more), that's another thing entirely.

 

I know that I would have been as upset as you and I would have been watching....

[leeg]

Thanks again all for the kind words.

 

Bochiman,

I have not seen it relisted either.

 

 

[bochiman]

Hmmm...makes me wonder if we will see it or if it will be farmed out under the radar (ie...to a want list or to another dealer....or even to an auction.....)

[leeg]

Hmmm...makes me wonder if we will see it or if it will be farmed out under the radar (ie...to a want list or to another dealer....or even to an auction.....)

 

The "Web's We Weave."

 

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Harry Laibstain was who I bought and sold too.

 

Sorry Harry but they say the truth shall set you free.

 

You really didn't help me in my time of need.

 

I believe in Karma, and you really lost some of that here.

 

 

Leeg, I am sorry to hear about your troubles and uck, the extra troubles you had to go through.

 

I probably purchase on line and feel more like an numbered robot instead of a friend or customer so I have a lower expectation of service.

 

Don't surround yourself with hateful vibes or karma. I do that myself always wanting to perfect the flaws I see in systems or others.

[leeg]

Harry Laibstain was who I bought and sold too.

 

Sorry Harry but they say the truth shall set you free.

 

You really didn't help me in my time of need.

 

I believe in Karma, and you really lost some of that here.

 

 

Leeg, I am sorry to hear about your troubles and uck, the extra troubles you had to go through.

 

I probably purchase on line and feel more like an numbered robot instead of a friend or customer so I have a lower expectation of service.

 

Don't surround yourself with hateful vibes or karma. I do that myself always wanting to perfect the flaws I see in systems or others.

 

Thanks Mark. I'm the type of person who does not dwell in the past. What happened yesterday belongs in yesterday. I wake each day with a smile on my face and a song in my heart. Not worried about what tomorrow may bring, let's enjoy today first.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[rrantique]

[quote

.

 

Thanks Mark. I'm the type of person who does not dwell in the past. What happened yesterday belongs in yesterday. I wake each day with a smile on my face and a song in my heart. Not worried about what tomorrow may bring, let's enjoy today first.

 

 

 

 

 

 

(thumbs u

[Houston Investor]

After reading all this and all the crying about dealers I believe if your going to invest in numismatic items its your responsibility to bear the risk. Dealers are not the bank for your coins nor your buddy. They are in business and sometimes business realities can be cruel especially if market conditions do not support it. Its not their fault your forced to sell. Right now the coin market is in the tank - if you don't like your dealers buy back shop it around the bourse room or better yet start it on ebay at 99c if you have the guts.

 

If you lose at a casino do you go to the manager and ask for your money back?

 

I can understand being forced to sell coins and even have experience with a dealer making fun of the item I was trying to sell back to him "my gosh who graded this" he said. Or my favorite "sorry no interest we are phasing these out."

 

Years ago when getting a buy price on some slabbed 69 and 70 modern gold (my father had passed away after a long 6 years in a nursing home - funeral expenses and debts) from some friends who ran a coin shop their offer was 97% of melt because the refiner pays 98%. Offering them classic slabbed coins, they simply pull out their blue sheet.

 

A numismatic portfolio should be balanced between cash, numismatic coins, collectible currency, and bullion coins. Bad things happen like death, job loss, illness.... Stay away from big ticket coins that only the wealthy can only afford.

 

Be glad you spent the money on a coin you could liquidate instead of travel or entertainment. Numismatic investment can be very risky; it does not pay interest or dividends either. Never, ever borrow money to buy coins. I don't believe there is any numismatic investment that is too large (if your budget can afford) or small, it all adds up.

 

[coinman1794]

Yep, but the timeline is missing in the OP and, in the follow-ups, what is that "short period of time" that people want 100% for?

 

I am not a dealer, and would love it if every dealer would be expected to pay me 100% back if I changed my mind, or circumstances changed, but what is that timeline?

 

I know my favorite online dealers usually give me 3-7 days and I get 100% back.

 

Somehow, I don't think the OP is about a week or less.

 

So, how long should a dealer be expected, without prior agreement, to take back a coin at 100% (or even 100% - actual shipping costs)?

 

Assuming the market is the same, and that nothing was found to be wrong with the coin after the sale, it would be unfair to expect any dealer to buy a coin back at 100% of the selling price, after the stated return policy had expired. A good return policy is 10-15 days; a long time considering it takes up to 1 minute or two to properly and thoroughly evaluate a coin.

 

After the terms of he agreement have terminated, the reacquisition of the coin is no longer a return, but rather new transaction. The dealer would thus have to have some meat on the bone in order to engage in this new transaction.

[Houston Investor]

A dealer is not under obligation to take back a coin at 100% unless part of some return policy. He is not the bank for your coins - your purchases are your responsibility as an adult. If you bet and lost well that's the way it will have to be. Beyond a return period, the situation is reset based on current market conditions and inventory needs. CDN Bid is 1000 on a coin the dealer sells for 1250. It is offered about 3 months later to him by the buyer for any number of reasons but CDN Bid has fallen to $900. The dealer may pass, offer $900 (a very fair offer) or even less. He may simply decline the transaction "sorry phasing these out" or "out of buying cash, come back later." Or "due to current market conditions I can only offer x."

 

If the buyer does not like it then he can shop the coin around the bourse or start on ebay say at an opening bid of $899.99 then if it does not sell lower the opening next time he lists it. Currently, based on current conditions I am not buying much of anything unless at some enticing price vs what I can sell it for. We are about to enter the summer doldrums woe to he who is forced to sell.

[Calamerica]

I have re-read this Thread three times over a 7 day period, and decided to put my 2 cents worth in here...

 

1) Sorry to LeeG for his emergency re: parent. I lost my father June 26, 1981, and cannot purge that date out of my mind no matter how hard I try.

 

2) I understand BOTH sides; several posters agreed with LeeG, a few put up meritorious counter-points.

 

3) There are a few things that stick out in my mind;

 

a) LeeG started out vague with this "deal", but added more details when asked, LeeG is to be commended for that;

 

b) However, LeeG started out by stating that he was NOT going to name the Dealer, but a few days/posts later, he called this Dealer out, and added the post of "Karma".

 

After careful consideration of this special situation case here, I decided that Seller 11 has the best perspective of this case.

 

Yes, the OP LeeG was in a real bind, but he WAS able to strike up that deal with the Dealer, despite no prior arrangement over 8 months ago.

 

LeeG might count himself a little lucky that he was able to turn that copper into cold cash to tide him over. 76% of what he paid is not that bad to me. The Dealer could have "stonewalled" him( Customer Service Rep:)" Mr. Dealer so-and-so is vacationing in the Alps and the winter storm has knocked out all Internet", etc.), or outright said "no".

 

I guarantee if that Dealer ever reads this Thread, he will NEVER bail LeeG or anyone else out again.

 

Also not clear: a few posters stating about that Copper's pricing, a few state that the item of said Coppers are controlled by four majors( dealers) at the biggest shows, etc. Bottom line: there are NOT big shows all of the time; that Dealer might have some trouble pawning off that coin in the next few months. Time is money, and now he has that coin back, after he thought he had a sale. Me personally? I rarely ever return items I buy here, or on the 'Bay. I just don't believe in returns generally, but to get that 20% Discount from the 'Bay by taking Returns, I revamped my business model and do take returns, but to set the Buyers' Remorse Fan Boys that plague me since day one, I slam that 25% restock fee on them. Many protest, but it is the DEAL they make when they read all about it in ALL my auction descriptions. It is not my fault they overspend or should find a cheaper hobby in the first place.

 

Ironically, one of my co-workers has this somewhat put-together Morgan/Peace Dollar collection, and he asked me if I could "hold" for him as he needed $500.00. I did not ask what the reason for the money was needed for. All I know about the Kid is that he is single, no live-in, as he has several other of our co-workers as roommates in a huge rented house. As I work in a Casino, I CANNOT entertain such financial deals with either co-workers or Customers( a firing offense even a first-time event), and the kid( 30-something) knew that. I can BUY outright, but must report said transactions within 5 business days. Slightly offended at this situation he TRIED too put me in, I asked if I could outright BUY the coins after I looked at them. He went home, returned a few hours later, and brought his Liberty Walker/Franklins for me to see. he knew I collected Franklins, but he did not know about Walkers or much else.

 

After I checked with HR, I made sure that I could outright purchase from him and NOT "loan/hold", I told him that I double-checked first. I would have voluntarily filled out a form the Gambling Control has you fill out for instances such as this. I asked the kid about the Morgans. He said that driving back he "changed his mind" and wanted $400 for the Walking Liberty's. He has almost all of them, missing five( the tough key early dates, but most of what he had was G - VG range). I politely declined.

 

I watched this kid ask EVERYONE that stopped by our Employee Lounge, and merely shook my head. A few days go by, and I overhear others comment how he took the Morgans/Peace Dollars and goes to the Freakin' PAWN SHOP and gets $475 for 35 Silver Dollars! I wanted to choke the kid!

 

Then I have to hear about how I "tried to rape him" and get a good price on the Dollars for myself.

 

Just this past Tuesday I got the kid outside and politely asked him to step outside and have a talk. He refused. I think he knew where this was headed. So I merely told him in that hallway, for anyone to hear, that I was unfairly treated with the false statements about "raping him" over those Morgans/Peace. He of course, denied it, but turned every shade of violet/blue/red/pink in the face. I laughed it off the best I could, told him that if he has what he SAID he had, I would have paid him far more than the $500 he initially wanted( he somehow forgot to tell everyone about that part) but did tell him that I am in this BUSINESS to make a profit, not be someone's Banker/Loan shark, etc. He turned away and did not say a word.

 

So we all learned a few valuable lessons here: do NOT do business with an apparent Novice, do NOT do business with a co-worker if your company has strict financial rules discouraging it( I even took my business cards off all the walls because of this kid), and Morgans/Peace Dollars are far much liquid than half dollars, at least in the Pawn shop world.

 

I seriously doubt the kid will have the $600 or whatever-amount is needed to reclaim his coins in about 14 weeks or so. That Pawn Shop is going to make BANK on those coins. The kid never really said why he was so desperate, but does have a job. Maybe he plays at the Casinos in Los Angeles area or wherever, but that is HIS business.

 

Back to LeeG:

 

You lost some credit by first stating that you were NOT going to name the "Dealer" you insinuate "ripped you off". Then later you name the Dealer, and sure sounds like you wish him ill will for not giving you 100% on that coin. No consideration of how the Dealer stays in business or anything like that. This Kid in my case lost ALL credit with me forever, I won't discuss coins, comics, stocks, or anything else with him ever again. His "raping him" trying to get those Morgans/Peace commentary has to be true; five different people told me, and the Kid denied it, but did NOT ask who told me. I know he is lying to me. That comes with age, knowing when people are lying to your face. He also stopped asking me for my extra shifts, despite needing this "extra" money.

 

I was raked over the coals for charging this other kid that 25% restock fee over an Amazing Spider-Man # 98, CGC NM+ 9.6 that sold for $675 when the Spider-Man 2 ( original) was out a few years ago. The kid returned the comic, but as a 3rd-party graded item, there could not be the usual " not-as-described" bs eBay uses to protect their Buyers, so he asked me for a full refund. I slammed that 25% restock fee on him. Why? Because when the movie hype died down, I resold that same copy for about $285. Big difference, as timeliness is a BIG part of the Marvel Superhero items. I was flamed merciless on the Comics Boards for this 25% restock business, but I felt that it is fair; a sale has to have some finality at some point, or there can NEVER be a sale. oh, the same kid tried to slam a neg on me, I had to lobby HARD to get it removed and I did.

 

In closing, I am siding with the Dealer. I saw NO agreement of any kind during that copper sale you did. I see nothing wrong with the Dealer trying to earn something on an item he thought he had sold, especially since it was a not-so-signiifcant 24% he made, well within eBay's margins( I know that it was NOT an eBay transaction, but I base most of what I do off of the 'Bay).

 

Did you try to call that dealer back and explain all of this to him? I did not see that either.

 

If I were that dealer, I would sue you. And I would win, too.

 

Please don't get upset with me for this Novella; I am responding because you asked for input.

 

CAL

[Hard Times]

After reading all this and all the crying about dealers I believe if your going to invest in numismatic items its your responsibility to bear the risk. Dealers are not the bank for your coins nor your buddy. They are in business and sometimes business realities can be cruel especially if market conditions do not support it. Its not their fault your forced to sell.

 

I don't hear anyone 'crying' here. I see instead a debate about what dealers should pay for coins they sold to someone when said buyer wishes to sell back. I will state again, the dealers that I prefer to do buisness with are those that have my back - they have an no questions asked buyback policy at 90% what I paid. Amazingly, there are dealers that do this because they are looking at the long-term and want their customers to have confidence that they are spending their funds well. HLRC IMO, low-balled leeg in the buyback. That is a uber-PQ coin and they could have flipped it for cost or 10% quickly and made leeg happy. They lost a long-term customer. Pretty short-sighted way to do buisness - one coin, long-term reduction in selling potential. Smart.

 

Best, HT

[Nutmeg Coin]

It is a tough call when dealers get requests to buy back coins they have sold. Here it looks like the buyback was greater than $2000/$1450 = 1.37 after a serious plea. I don't know many dealers with mark-ups like that. Numismatics is not like gambling or playing the lottery ("a tax on fools"). It is a serious field with huge amounts of research. There are many irresponsible statements like comparing the purchase to being "gambling" on this thread, the better dealers are bound by regulatory organizations like PNG and their code of ethics, and the ANA has a grievance committee which allows complaints to be addressed. Yelp and Google allow anyone to post reviews of businesses, how else will future customers know about potential problems as well as satisfied customers? No, it is not libelous or slanderous to discuss dealer/customer activity, and in the US slander has a pretty high threshold. As long as charges can be backed up with evidence there is no slander.

[Calamerica]

It is a tough call when dealers get requests to buy back coins they have sold. Here it looks like the buyback was greater than $2000/$1450 = 1.37 after a serious plea. I don't know many dealers with mark-ups like that. Numismatics is not like gambling or playing the lottery ("a tax on fools"). It is a serious field with huge amounts of research. There are many irresponsible statements like comparing the purchase to being "gambling" on this thread, the better dealers are bound by regulatory organizations like PNG and their code of ethics, and the ANA has a grievance committee which allows complaints to be addressed. Yelp and Google allow anyone to post reviews of businesses, how else will future customers know about potential problems as well as satisfied customers? No, it is not libelous or slanderous to discuss dealer/customer activity, and in the US slander has a pretty high threshold. As long as charges can be backed up with evidence there is no slander.

 

For your Info here, there is no "slander", which is the spoken word. THIS case would be "libel", the PRINTED words that harm that Dealer's business, but more importantly, harms that Dealer's REPUTATION!!!. Add some spice of 12 posters or so that agree with LeeG's "karma" post, and a dash of how that Dealer somehow "twisted" LeeG's arm to "overpay/overcharge" for that copper coin, and you would have a major problem on your hands. Many cases harder than this one have been found for the Plaintiff, and rightfully so.

 

Matter-of-fact this would be a somewhat EASY case for the Dealer in question to win here.

a) Intent: to flame that dealer, the purpose of starting this Thread.

b) Content: Do I really need to go over this?

c) Results: At least TWO other posters said that they only heard good things about that Dealer.

d) Demonstrative: Now if his Sales are down( online) for the next 6 months, and he can prove that on paper, that is substantial demonstrative damages.

 

Me? That kid who returned that ASM 98 CGC NM+ 9.6? I don't want his business, he is on my Blocked Bidder List. I did not sign up for those kind of Buyers/problems. I don't know personally that Dealer of question, but only heard good things about him until this Thread. I don't know LeeG either but he asked for input. I obliged. Still on the Dealers' side here unless other details come to light, which, through past experiences on this Forum and in real life, is now highly remote.

 

CAL

[World Colonial]

Sorry, if it sounds harsh but this situation could have been avoided by only buying coins that the buyer can afford to keep. This doesn't seem to be the situation with the OP.

 

As for the dealer, I only buy occasionally from them and I am not a "preferred customer" with any of them. The reason I am not is because for the coins I collect, only a few carry anything I want to buy and only on occassion and for those I would like to buy the most, predominantly at stupid money prices which will leave the buyer hopelessly "buried".

 

I can see some dealers have a strong enough business to buyback coins on the terms specificed here, but I still wouldn't expect it. If meant literally, i also don't see that any dealer would buy back at 90% unless the current price was the same or higher versus the original one.

[Nutmeg Coin]

It is a tough call when dealers get requests to buy back coins they have sold. Here it looks like the buyback was greater than $2000/$1450 = 1.37 after a serious plea. I don't know many dealers with mark-ups like that. Numismatics is not like gambling or playing the lottery ("a tax on fools"). It is a serious field with huge amounts of research. There are many irresponsible statements like comparing the purchase to being "gambling" on this thread, the better dealers are bound by regulatory organizations like PNG and their code of ethics, and the ANA has a grievance committee which allows complaints to be addressed. Yelp and Google allow anyone to post reviews of businesses, how else will future customers know about potential problems as well as satisfied customers? No, it is not libelous or slanderous to discuss dealer/customer activity, and in the US slander has a pretty high threshold. As long as charges can be backed up with evidence there is no slander.

 

For your Info here, there is no "slander", which is the spoken word. THIS case would be "libel", the PRINTED words that harm that Dealer's business, but more importantly, harms that Dealer's REPUTATION!!!. Add some spice of 12 posters or so that agree with LeeG's "karma" post, and a dash of how that Dealer somehow "twisted" LeeG's arm to "overpay/overcharge" for that copper coin, and you would have a major problem on your hands. Many cases harder than this one have been found for the Plaintiff, and rightfully so.

 

Matter-of-fact this would be a somewhat EASY case for the Dealer in question to win here.

a) Intent: to flame that dealer, the purpose of starting this Thread.

b) Content: Do I really need to go over this?

c) Results: At least TWO other posters said that they only heard good things about that Dealer.

d) Demonstrative: Now if his Sales are down( online) for the next 6 months, and he can prove that on paper, that is substantial demonstrative damages.

 

Me? That kid who returned that ASM 98 CGC NM+ 9.6? I don't want his business, he is on my Blocked Bidder List. I did not sign up for those kind of Buyers/problems. I don't know personally that Dealer of question, but only heard good things about him until this Thread. I don't know LeeG either but he asked for input. I obliged. Still on the Dealers' side here unless other details come to light, which, through past experiences on this Forum and in real life, is now highly remote.

 

CAL

 

You may want to consult a dictionary before you misuse a word like libel. The accusation must generally be false in order to rise to that level, as in the case of Laurie Sperber who sued the guy who spread the untruth about her that she had been convicted of a crime which she hadn't.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation

 

 

[leeg]

I appreciate everyone's thoughts and comments in this thread.

 

I'm just sorry that I ever posted it. Harry is a good person as are his staff and I never meant to disparage any of them. I was just hoping to get $1,589 for the coin so I could take proper care of my Mother's Cremation. I took care of her the last two plus years of her life and just felt since I paid $1,900 + VA State Sales Tax that the $1,589 was not unreasonable.

 

Sorry again if I offended anyone with my responses in this thread.

[Walkerfan]

I appreciate everyone's thoughts and comments in this thread.

 

I'm just sorry that I ever posted it. Harry is a good person as are his staff and I never meant to disparage any of them. I was just hoping to get $1,589 for the coin so I could take proper care of my Mother's Cremation. I took care of her the last two plus years of her life and just felt since I paid $1,900 + VA State Sales Tax that the $1,589 was not unreasonable.

 

Sorry again if I offended anyone with my responses in this thread.

 

Leeg---you have NOTHING to be sorry about, as you did absolutely nothing wrong. You were the one that was taken advantage of and hurt by this 'transaction'. Sharing it with the board was a public service IMHO and I do praise you for that.

[Nutmeg Coin]

This was the Sperber suit, still in litigation: http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/new-jersey/njdce/3:2013cv00768/284951/19/

 

This was the defamation on "Rip-off Riport": http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Laura-Sperber-of-Legend-Numismatics/internet/Laura-Sperber-of-Legend-Numismatics-Laura-Sperber-Trade-Dollar-Nut-Screw-by-Laura-Sperbe-946046

 

All the PNG members I have known have been upstanding and ethical people, it really is too bad misunderstandings happen from time to time. Free speech is not a license to vilify, harangue, misrepresent, cast aspersions on others, etc.. But it should be supported though others may strenuously disagree with a given point, argument, even attitude or tinge of anger. Thankfully the moderators do an excellent job trying to maintain a healthy balance between all the different personalities on the forums and are not kicking people off willynilly.

[orifdoc]

Interesting thread, and informative on many levels.

 

The older I get the more I realize that people see things very differently. There are real reasons people see it the way they do. I'd venture a guess that the two broad categories of responses to this thread might be split into those who have owned a business and those who haven't. I'm not suggesting the business owner's viewpoint is always correct, but people might consider trying to see it from the other side.

 

Is the OP's situation enviable? No. My heart goes out for him in a difficult time. Should there be compassion in such a situation? Probably, yes. Every decent person would agree. From a business perspective, however, I can tell you that with customers there is ALWAYS an emergency or some situation to deal with. I'm sure I'm considered a "bad person" by employees I've had to fire and by people whose accounts were send to collection agencies. At then end of they day it's a for-profit business.

 

One of my favorite stories was told to me by a friend who used to be a billing agent for a family physician. The physician's pastor came in for a checkup. As he was walking out the door the doctor told my friend to make *%$# sure he paid his bill. Does that make him a heartless bad guy? Not in my book. Nobody complains that the grocery store doesn't take food back or that car dealers don't take used vehicles back at new prices. There is no substantive difference here.

 

In this case, perhaps if the original purchase had been more in-line with other realized auction prices or the OP had tried longer/harder to sell the coin himself, the situation might have ended better.

[leeg]

Thank You Walkerfan. I just wish more here felt the way you do, which is the truth.

 

I'm a U.S. Navy Retired Senior Chief who enjoys coins. Only 2% of the total military service ever achieves the level I have. But now with my Mom passing and the verbiage I've read here, I can not continue to be a part of this forum. Time to move on and make my way elsewhere. I most enjoy the history behind the coins. That's why I've been doing research for six years on the early classic commemorative coin series.

 

Thanks to all who have helped me along the way. Roger Burdette, Mark Feld, too many others to name. I cherish the time we've had together.

 

 

[Walkerfan]

Thank You Walkerfan. I just wish more here felt the way you do, which is the truth.

 

I'm a U.S. Navy Retired Senior Chief who enjoys coins. Only 2% of the total military service ever achieves the level I have. But now with my Mom passing and the verbiage I've read here, I can not continue to be a part of this forum. Time to move on and make my way elsewhere. I most enjoy the history behind the coins. That's why I've been doing research for six years on the early classic commemorative coin series.

 

Thanks to all who have helped me along the way. Roger Burdette, Mark Feld, too many others to name. I cherish the time we've had together.

 

 

You are VERY welcome, Leeg. I've enjoyed having you here very much. Always appreciated your input. You have been here a long time----almost twice as long as me. I really hope that you stay. I would be VERY sad to see you go, as the result of the actions of an avaricious dealer and some empty threats by a few internet bullies. Please reconsider.

[leeg]

This will be my last post on this forum:

 

I truly thank NGC for allowing me to post here. PCGS has nothing on NGC.

 

Enjoy your coins and have a good life.

 

Over and Out.

 

 

 

 

Edit: Just going to take a break from the Forum for a while. I'm not quitting just need a break.

[Calamerica]

It is a tough call when dealers get requests to buy back coins they have sold. Here it looks like the buyback was greater than $2000/$1450 = 1.37 after a serious plea. I don't know many dealers with mark-ups like that. Numismatics is not like gambling or playing the lottery ("a tax on fools"). It is a serious field with huge amounts of research. There are many irresponsible statements like comparing the purchase to being "gambling" on this thread, the better dealers are bound by regulatory organizations like PNG and their code of ethics, and the ANA has a grievance committee which allows complaints to be addressed. Yelp and Google allow anyone to post reviews of businesses, how else will future customers know about potential problems as well as satisfied customers? No, it is not libelous or slanderous to discuss dealer/customer activity, and in the US slander has a pretty high threshold. As long as charges can be backed up with evidence there is no slander.

 

For your Info here, there is no "slander", which is the spoken word. THIS case would be "libel", the PRINTED words that harm that Dealer's business, but more importantly, harms that Dealer's REPUTATION!!!. Add some spice of 12 posters or so that agree with LeeG's "karma" post, and a dash of how that Dealer somehow "twisted" LeeG's arm to "overpay/overcharge" for that copper coin, and you would have a major problem on your hands. Many cases harder than this one have been found for the Plaintiff, and rightfully so.

 

Matter-of-fact this would be a somewhat EASY case for the Dealer in question to win here.

a) Intent: to flame that dealer, the purpose of starting this Thread.

b) Content: Do I really need to go over this?

c) Results: At least TWO other posters said that they only heard good things about that Dealer.

d) Demonstrative: Now if his Sales are down( online) for the next 6 months, and he can prove that on paper, that is substantial demonstrative damages.

 

Me? That kid who returned that ASM 98 CGC NM+ 9.6? I don't want his business, he is on my Blocked Bidder List. I did not sign up for those kind of Buyers/problems. I don't know personally that Dealer of question, but only heard good things about him until this Thread. I don't know LeeG either but he asked for input. I obliged. Still on the Dealers' side here unless other details come to light, which, through past experiences on this Forum and in real life, is now highly remote.

 

CAL

 

You may want to consult a dictionary before you misuse a word like libel. The accusation must generally be false in order to rise to that level, as in the case of Laurie Sperber who sued the guy who spread the untruth about her that she had been convicted of a crime which she hadn't.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation

 

 

To Nutmeg Coin:

 

I don't want this Thread to turn into a urinating contest between you and me, but YOUR OWN postings has buried yourself in a pile of stink;

 

Your Wikipeadia link DOES distinguish what I said before: "Slander" is the Spoken defamation, and "Libel" is the "Printed words/Images".

 

I am now calling you out on your intentions of arguing over the semantics/syntax/interpretations of anyone on this Thread, except the OP, who you appear to be in 100% support of and agree with his assessment of the Dealer of the OP's question.

 

I also took the 15 minutes to read all Nine pages of that Brief that was, well, ALSO had "libel" case instead of your "slander", but don't make me re-read it and point to the Lines/paragraphs that distinguish what is what.

 

On the Rip-Off report, the POSTERS are using "Slander" instead of Libel, and the Courts are not going to keep re-hashing syntax until is becomes necessary during Testimony if a trial is adjudicated.

 

Back to the Original main topic of this Thread, the OP, LeeG has now stated that he has quit this Board.

 

That should be of more concern that that case about Ms. Sterber calling out the coin doctors, which btw, I read somewhere else, I believe it was CoinTalk Forums.

 

In Conclusion, there was a multitude of great points made in this Thread. But there was also some very inconsistent behaviors by several, and particularly disturbing was the post of "Internet Bullies". No one here in this Thread tried to bully anyone. No one forced LeeG to quit this Forum. He made that decision all on his own.

 

The "Coinees" as we are usually called, usually don't get in those nasty drag-out flame wars that were a weekly occurrence on Comic Boards on the 'Bay back in the day, or the Gaming Threads/Sports' Team Threads where the youngsters' spewing forth their filth is almost comical. The fact that there is so much "bad blood" between the two sides that surfaced in this Thread is not a good sign.

 

CAL over and out...

[MarkFeld]

Thank You Walkerfan. I just wish more here felt the way you do, which is the truth.

 

I'm a U.S. Navy Retired Senior Chief who enjoys coins. Only 2% of the total military service ever achieves the level I have. But now with my Mom passing and the verbiage I've read here, I can not continue to be a part of this forum. Time to move on and make my way elsewhere. I most enjoy the history behind the coins. That's why I've been doing research for six years on the early classic commemorative coin series.

 

Thanks to all who have helped me along the way. Roger Burdette, Mark Feld, too many others to name. I cherish the time we've had together.

 

 

You are VERY welcome, Leeg. I've enjoyed having you here very much. Always appreciated your input. You have been here a long time----almost twice as long as me. I really hope that you stay. I would be VERY sad to see you go, as the result of the actions of an avaricious dealer and some empty threats by a few internet bullies. Please reconsider.

 

Please either point out the threats and Internet bullies you referenced or apologize to the posters of this thread.

[Walkerfan]

Thank You Walkerfan. I just wish more here felt the way you do, which is the truth.

 

I'm a U.S. Navy Retired Senior Chief who enjoys coins. Only 2% of the total military service ever achieves the level I have. But now with my Mom passing and the verbiage I've read here, I can not continue to be a part of this forum. Time to move on and make my way elsewhere. I most enjoy the history behind the coins. That's why I've been doing research for six years on the early classic commemorative coin series.

 

Thanks to all who have helped me along the way. Roger Burdette, Mark Feld, too many others to name. I cherish the time we've had together.

 

 

You are VERY welcome, Leeg. I've enjoyed having you here very much. Always appreciated your input. You have been here a long time----almost twice as long as me. I really hope that you stay. I would be VERY sad to see you go, as the result of the actions of an avaricious dealer and some empty threats by a few internet bullies. Please reconsider.

 

Please either point out the threats and Internet bullies you referenced or apologize to the posters of this thread.

 

Seriously? Don't make me laugh. I am not going to spell out the obvious.

[MarkFeld]

Thank You Walkerfan. I just wish more here felt the way you do, which is the truth.

 

I'm a U.S. Navy Retired Senior Chief who enjoys coins. Only 2% of the total military service ever achieves the level I have. But now with my Mom passing and the verbiage I've read here, I can not continue to be a part of this forum. Time to move on and make my way elsewhere. I most enjoy the history behind the coins. That's why I've been doing research for six years on the early classic commemorative coin series.

 

Thanks to all who have helped me along the way. Roger Burdette, Mark Feld, too many others to name. I cherish the time we've had together.

 

 

You are VERY welcome, Leeg. I've enjoyed having you here very much. Always appreciated your input. You have been here a long time----almost twice as long as me. I really hope that you stay. I would be VERY sad to see you go, as the result of the actions of an avaricious dealer and some empty threats by a few internet bullies. Please reconsider.

 

Please either point out the threats and Internet bullies you referenced or apologize to the posters of this thread.

 

Seriously? Don't make me laugh. I am not going to spell out the obvious.

 

Yes, I'm serious - I saw no bullying or threats and apparently, neither did another poster, who commented on the same subject. If it's so "obvious", it should be quick and easy for you to point out.