Expensive Coin on Ebay

[Tyrock]

I was looking at coins on Ebay and I was surprised to see a proof Bust dollar with an asking price of $1.3 million. It's a PCGS coin. I've never seen that before. I always thought that coins of that value would end up in an auction. Anyone else surprised by this?

[BillJones]

Big rarities do show up on eBay from time to time. Often it is intended more for the publicity than actual sale.

 

If it is one of those Proof Bust Dollars that was at the same time as the 1804 "Original" dollars, $1.3 million actually sounds cheap to me. But I'm not in the market for one of these.

[Tyrock]

That makes sense. Thank you.

[Mr. Smith Guesser]

Here's the coin:

 

 

The same seller is also offering a 1907 Ultra High Relief $20 PCGS PR 69 for $4.1 milli. Link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1907-EXTREMELY-HIGH-RELIEF-20-PCGS-PR-69-/171649222980?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item27f7174944

 

I believe that this is the same coin that sold in June 2012 for $2.7 million.

[Flatwoods]

Without looking at the link I'll guess Rare Coin Wholesalers.

They do this a lot. Like Bill suggested it is a ploy to get you to their website.

I doubt they really want to sell the coin through Ebay.

[Danye West]

I think it's their way of getting free advertisement. They know collectors check eBay so it raises awareness that it's for sale.

[jom]

Yep...free pub. The sales are legit though so whip out your checkbook!

 

jom

[Nutmeg Coin]

Ebay may cap the seller fee as a $ amount not a %. Free publicity; love it or hate it ebay is a huge market option, HA, Apmex and other numismatic outfits have full time workers doing sales through ebay.

[Mr. Smith Guesser]

Without looking at the link I'll guess Rare Coin Wholesalers.

 

Yup

[KMAG100]

Ok, to say I am impressed would be an understatement....Typically how do those coins valued over a $100K move around. Is it typically dealer to dealer until a collector buys it, or does it sit in a vault until a collector buys it. While I can easily imagine many people having the money to purchase coins over $100K, however it gets more difficult for me to wrap my mind around the number of collectors it would take willing to spend $5 to $10 million a year purchasing coins (single individuals) to create a fluid market where RCW could have inventory turnover. Is there a small group of elite collectors that buy and sell these coins back and fourth. Elite being defined as massively deep pockets. Or is it typically organizations/ Institutions?

[coinman_23885]

Here's the coin:

 

 

The same seller is also offering a 1907 Ultra High Relief $20 PCGS PR 69 for $4.1 milli. Link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1907-EXTREMELY-HIGH-RELIEF-20-PCGS-PR-69-/171649222980?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item27f7174944

 

I believe that this is the same coin that sold in June 2012 for $2.7 million.

 

I think this was actually a restrike if I am not mistaken, and there is a decent mark-up included from when that piece was first auctioned at Heritage several months back if I am not mistaken. $1.3 million is not wholesale on that piece nor is it cheap.

 

Edited: I just looked it up. It sold for just under $852k in August of 2012 at Heritage. So less than 2.5 years later, he is asking for more than a 50% mark-up. Another proof 65 cameo sold for $920,000 in 2008. I don't think the piece is worth $1.3 million.

 

Also from that listing:

 

When Were the Coins Struck?

 

Although the dies for the 1802 and most of the other Draped Bust proof dollars were apparently produced before the mid-1830s, it seems likely that only the Class I 1804 dollars were actually struck during that era. When the 1801-1803 proofs first started to appear, in the late 1870s, they displayed perfectly preserved mirrored surfaces that showed no signs of circulation or long-term storage. The coins were sharply detailed and exhibited a more uniform strike than the coins of earlier years. Contemporary numismatists suspected that the coins were not produced in the early 19th century because of their association with the 1804 dollars, which were restruck circa 1858 and perhaps reissued in 1876. On the reverse of the 1802 proof dollar, a thin die crack appears through the letters NITED. This feature suggests the 1802 was struck at a later date than the 1804 dollars, which only show this crack in an earlier state.

 

As a restrike, I am surprised that it sold for as much as it did.

[jpcienkus]

Here's the coin:

 

 

The same seller is also offering a 1907 Ultra High Relief $20 PCGS PR 69 for $4.1 milli. Link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1907-EXTREMELY-HIGH-RELIEF-20-PCGS-PR-69-/171649222980?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item27f7174944

 

I believe that this is the same coin that sold in June 2012 for $2.7 million.

 

Gorgeous!

[RWB]

Wide exposure and collector "buzz" for very few dollars -- smart advertising.

 

[BillJones]

Here's the coin:

 

 

The same seller is also offering a 1907 Ultra High Relief $20 PCGS PR 69 for $4.1 milli. Link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1907-EXTREMELY-HIGH-RELIEF-20-PCGS-PR-69-/171649222980?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item27f7174944

 

I believe that this is the same coin that sold in June 2012 for $2.7 million.

 

Gorgeous!

 

Yes, it's pretty, but it's not nearly as impressive to me as a very high grade Bust Dollar from the 1798 - 1803 period. Those don't sell for as much and were not "made to sell" as this piece was.

 

Here is the highest grade example I have, which is an AU-58, and from the collector perspective it impresses me more.

 

[O mint bug]

Yes. Very surprised. A coin like this will get much more exposure prior to sale if auctioned.

[jpcienkus]

Beautiful Bust Dollar Bill! Very impressive. I love the skin and the details on that coin.

[MarkFeld]

Here's the coin:

 

 

The same seller is also offering a 1907 Ultra High Relief $20 PCGS PR 69 for $4.1 milli. Link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1907-EXTREMELY-HIGH-RELIEF-20-PCGS-PR-69-/171649222980?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item27f7174944

 

I believe that this is the same coin that sold in June 2012 for $2.7 million.

 

I think this was actually a restrike if I am not mistaken, and there is a decent mark-up included from when that piece was first auctioned at Heritage several months back if I am not mistaken. $1.3 million is not wholesale on that piece nor is it cheap.

 

Edited: I just looked it up. It sold for just under $852k in August of 2012 at Heritage. So less than 2.5 years later, he is asking for more than a 50% mark-up. Another proof 65 cameo sold for $920,000 in 2008. I don't think the piece is worth $1.3 million.

 

Also from that listing:

 

When Were the Coins Struck?

 

Although the dies for the 1802 and most of the other Draped Bust proof dollars were apparently produced before the mid-1830s, it seems likely that only the Class I 1804 dollars were actually struck during that era. When the 1801-1803 proofs first started to appear, in the late 1870s, they displayed perfectly preserved mirrored surfaces that showed no signs of circulation or long-term storage. The coins were sharply detailed and exhibited a more uniform strike than the coins of earlier years. Contemporary numismatists suspected that the coins were not produced in the early 19th century because of their association with the 1804 dollars, which were restruck circa 1858 and perhaps reissued in 1876. On the reverse of the 1802 proof dollar, a thin die crack appears through the letters NITED. This feature suggests the 1802 was struck at a later date than the 1804 dollars, which only show this crack in an earlier state.

 

As a restrike, I am surprised that it sold for as much as it did.

 

The 1801,1802 and 1803 Proof dollars are not technically restrikes, as there were no originals in the first place. I have seen them referred to as novodels.

[coinman_23885]

As a restrike, I am surprised that it sold for as much as it did.

 

The 1801,1802 and 1803 Proof dollars are not technically restrikes, as there were no originals in the first place. I have seen them referred to as novodels.

 

Thanks! I didn't know that; this is neat.

[MarkFeld]

As a restrike, I am surprised that it sold for as much as it did.

 

The 1801,1802 and 1803 Proof dollars are not technically restrikes, as there were no originals in the first place. I have seen them referred to as novodels.

 

Thanks! I didn't know that; this is neat.

 

You're most welcome.

 

Even though they weren't produced in the year in which they are dated, they are still extremely rare and impressive looking. In fact, they're much rarer than the 1804 issue, but haven't been the recipient of anywhere near as much publicity and intrigue. So they sell for much lower prices.

[GoldFinger1969]

Even though they weren't produced in the year in which they are dated, they are still extremely rare and impressive looking. In fact, they're much rarer than the 1804 issue, but haven't been the recipient of anywhere near as much publicity and intrigue. So they sell for much lower prices.

Am I correct in that they re-struck the coin 30 years AFTER the original mint date ?

 

Why would they open up a can of worms like that ?

[e1cnr]

chapter on novodels

 

http://www.pcgs.com/books/silver-dollars/Chapter06-001.aspx

[MarkFeld]

Even though they weren't produced in the year in which they are dated, they are still extremely rare and impressive looking. In fact, they're much rarer than the 1804 issue, but haven't been the recipient of anywhere near as much publicity and intrigue. So they sell for much lower prices.

Am I correct in that they re-struck the coin 30 years AFTER the original mint date ?

 

Why would they open up a can of worms like that ?

 

As mentioned, the Proofs were not "re-struck" because they weren't (ever) struck prior to that. And they were probably produced at least 50 years years after the dates they bear.