1969-1970 Roosevelt Reverse of 1968-S Proof Variety (FS-901)
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For the past several months, I've been quite interested in the Cherrypickers' FS-901 variety found on the 1969-P, 1970-P, and 1970-D Roosevelt dimes. And I just wanted to post an update on what I've learned about the variety so far.

 

If you're not already familiar with this variety, I'll quickly sum it up:

 

There are two reverse design varieties found on 1969-P, 1970-P, and 1970-D Roosevelt dimes. The first is the correct reverse design intended for the dates, called RDV-001 by CONECA. The second, called RDV-002 by CONECA and listed as FS-901 in the Cherrypickers' Guide, was originally intended to be used on the 1968 proof reverse. However, the 1968 proof reverse somehow found its way onto 1969-P, 1970-P, and 1970-D business-struck Roosevelt dimes.

 

The correct reverse (RDV-001) features the torch flame in low relief, while the 1968-S reverse (RDV-002 & FS-901) has two deeper valleys in the flame. The difference is obvious to the naked eye.

 

dnjd6s.jpg

 

It is believed (although unconfirmed) that in 1969 and 1970 the mints had a deficit of working reverse dies for Roosevelt dimes and simply made the decision to use surplus reverse dies, which just happened to be the 1968 proof reverse, to continue production.

 

There is pretty good evidence that the use of the 1968 proof reverse was intentional. The variety is found on Roosevelts from both the Philadelphia and Denver mints, and across two years of production. It would be unlikely that an unintentional mistake would be made at both mints and across the two years. Furthermore, we can make the good assumption that there were in fact a significant number of surplus 1968 proof reverse dies; evident in the availability of mint cancelled 1968-S die and collar sets on the market. These are often still found for sale on eBay.

 

After collecting this variety for the past several months, I've found a significant discrepancy in the availability of FS-901 across the three Roosevelt dates/mints.

 

I've found that the 1970-D FS-901 is the easiest to find by far. Most of the 1970-D FS-901s that I've found have been well circulated, although uncirculated coins can be found with a little searching.

 

260pmb9.jpg

The variety is impossible to see in this photo. But trust me, they're all well circulated 1970-D FS-901s.

 

The 1970-P FS-901 is a bit harder to find in general. But I've found that, unlike its Denver counterpart, the 1970-P FS-901 is quite difficult to find uncirculated. I've been able to get my hands on a few very good AU examples, but have not been able to located a really nice MS coin.

 

Then there's the 1969-P FS-901. After searching for this coin for nearly nine months, I haven't seen even a single example of this coin in any grade...not even in a photograph! In fact, the only evidence that I can find for the existence of the 1969-P FS-901 is in the writings of other authors and in the PCGS population report. (NGC doesn't recognize the variety)

 

In total, PCGS has a population of only seven 1969-P FS-901s; three at MS 63 and four at MS 64. And no, there is no photograph of the coin on their website: http://www.pcgscoinfacts.com/Coin/Detail/511012?redir=t

 

If you have a 1969-P FS-901, please post a photograph!

 

It should also be noted that, even on the uncirculated 1970-D FS-901 coins, I have seen several with significant strike issues. I can only guess that this is a result of slight differences in the business and proof reverse dies, resulting in incorrect pressure.

 

2ytr79y.png

All uncirculated 1970-D FS-901 with reverse strike issues.

 

I really like this variety because I find some humor in it. I like to imagine that someone at the Treasury Department was confronted with the reverse die dilemma and made the decision just to use the surplus 1968 proof reverse dies thinking, 'Eh, no one will notice. It's close enough.'

 

I've had three uncirculated 1970-D FS-901s graded; one by PCGS and two others by ANACS, all graded MS 65:

 

5d4i28.jpg

 

I've also just recently found a 1970-D graded MS 66 by PCGS and with the FS-901 variety; but the variety is undesignated. This coin is currently on its way back to PCGS for variety designation. Once designated, this coin will be top pop 1/3 (excluding one at MS 66 FB).

 

15z5mr7.jpg1z2huuu.jpgkccfgz.jpg

 

Again, if you have a 1969-P FS-901, please post a photograph. I'd love to see it.

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Well, the variety has been known for quite a long time. It's just that the Roosevelt series is not very well collected. And its varieties are even less collected. So, unless you're a hardcore Roosevelt nerd (like myself) it's unlikely that you would have heard of it.

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I have noticed that this variety has a die break between AM and CA of AMERICA

 

I started looking when someone mentioned they think they have wide and narrow AM in AMERICA like in the cents

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Question, how does this proof rev of 68 compare to the proof rev design used on 69 and 70?

 

I doubt these are left over 1968 proof rev dies, I think they are rev dies that were hubbed with the proof hub and used for business strikes in error instead of being polished and sent to San Francisco for use in making proofs. (All dies were made in Philadelphia at that time.)

 

That is the same thing that created the 1998, 99, and 00 WAM cents, and the 1998 & 99 S proof CAM cents. It is also what created the 1995 W business strike gold coins, and probably the Franklin prrofs with business strike hubbed dies, and business strikes with proof hubbed dies etc.

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I am new to this forum...so I do not yet know how to post pics yet...

I have seen 1 1969P rdv 002 which I did not buy...

I also know of the person who owns and is selling the one on e-bay from another forum....

and I have 2 1969 P rdv-002 dimes

1 is a MS and 1 is a gold plated one I bought off of e-bay

my MS dime along with my 70 and 70 D dime can be seen on error-ref.com

 

http://www.error-ref.com/transitional-reverse-1969-1970-dime-with-proof-re/

 

totals so far..

 

21 1970 D rdv-002

17 1970 P rdv-002

4 1969 P rdv-002

 

the 1968 S comes in both RDV-001 and RDV-002

with what I can tell the RDV-001 slightly more scarce....

but I have only looked at a few... and I may be off slightly

 

 

'They are out there.... just takes a lot of searching

 

Edited by ONECENT1909

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welcome onecent1909

 

very nice article and coins

 

can you post the 70-D that is also a DDR FS-802?

 

I looked at mine and a couple have mushy letters from die erosion,

but not fs-802 - which has the typical RDV in the cherrypickers guide

 

Are you saying the proof 68-S has both reverses as well?

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Yes the 1968 s proof dime has both reverse as well

I contacted Dr. Wiles who said they are a 50/50 occurrence.

I believe the numbers are not 50/50 but I do not know what the percent is

I will work on the pics shortly

the DDR is NOT a rdv-002

BJ was looking for a RDV-002 on the bay when he came across a DDR.

he bought it and had that as his RDV-001 coin....that coin is not mine

(I do have a 70 D DDR... I will check and see If I have pics of it)

I then told him I had put together a set of the three RDV-002 circulation strike coins

He asked if he could take pics for his website

 

Edited by ONECENT1909

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I'd still like my question answered, how does the well detailed 1968 S proof reverse compare to the 69-S and 70-S proof reverse?

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I'd still like my question answered, how does the well detailed 1968 S proof reverse compare to the 69-S and 70-S proof reverse?

I actually don't collect the proofs, so I don't have any examples for comparison. They are, of course, quite common. Maybe someone else here with examples could take a look?

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Yes the 1968 s proof dime has both reverse as well

I contacted Dr. Wiles who said they are a 50/50 occurrence.

I believe the numbers are not 50/50 but I do not know what the percent is

I will work on the pics shortly

the DDR is NOT a rdv-002

BJ was looking for a RDV-002 on the bay when he came across a DDR.

he bought it and had that as his RDV-001 coin....that coin is not mine

(I do have a 70 D DDR... I will check and see If I have pics of it)

I then told him I had put together a set of the three RDV-002 circulation strike coins

He asked if he could take pics for his website

 

Here is an image of the Reverse of my 1970-D FS-801 DDR with the RDV-001.

IMG_0863_zps1b280a76.jpg

 

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Yes the 1968 s proof dime has both reverse as well

I contacted Dr. Wiles who said they are a 50/50 occurrence.

I believe the numbers are not 50/50 but I do not know what the percent is

I will work on the pics shortly

the DDR is NOT a rdv-002

BJ was looking for a RDV-002 on the bay when he came across a DDR.

he bought it and had that as his RDV-001 coin....that coin is not mine

(I do have a 70 D DDR... I will check and see If I have pics of it)

I then told him I had put together a set of the three RDV-002 circulation strike coins

He asked if he could take pics for his website

 

Here is an image of the Reverse of my 1970-D FS-801 DDR with the RDV-001.

IMG_0863_zps1b280a76.jpg

 

Nice looking reverse on this one. Looks almost FT. Full line details aren't very easy to find on Roosevelts from the '70s. I think the 1974-P is one of the hardest dimes to find with FT throughout the entire series.

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Yes the 1968 s proof dime has both reverse as well

I contacted Dr. Wiles who said they are a 50/50 occurrence.

I believe the numbers are not 50/50 but I do not know what the percent is

I will work on the pics shortly

the DDR is NOT a rdv-002

BJ was looking for a RDV-002 on the bay when he came across a DDR.

he bought it and had that as his RDV-001 coin....that coin is not mine

(I do have a 70 D DDR... I will check and see If I have pics of it)

I then told him I had put together a set of the three RDV-002 circulation strike coins

He asked if he could take pics for his website

 

Here is an image of the Reverse of my 1970-D FS-801 DDR with the RDV-001.

IMG_0863_zps1b280a76.jpg

 

Nice looking reverse on this one. Looks almost FT. Full line details aren't very easy to find on Roosevelts from the '70s. I think the 1974-P is one of the hardest dimes to find with FT throughout the entire series.

 

This coin is graded MS67FT by NGC and according to the population data for NGC and PCGS, it is the Top Pop for the FS-801 variety.

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This coin is graded MS67FT by NGC and according to the population data for NGC and PCGS, it is the Top Pop for the FS-801 variety.

Very cool. Yeah, it's hard to see the sides of the split in the lower band from the photo. But very nice coin. I don't think there are any 1970-D dimes graded higher than MS 67 FT even without the variety. I have a few 1970-D FS-801s, but none higher than MS 66. This one is in an ANACS holder at MS 66, but a good example of an early die state FS-801.

 

r057xk.jpg

 

2n1c2s7.jpg

 

This one is close to FT. But no cigar.

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This coin is graded MS67FT by NGC and according to the population data for NGC and PCGS, it is the Top Pop for the FS-801 variety.

Very cool. Yeah, it's hard to see the sides of the split in the lower band from the photo. But very nice coin. I don't think there are any 1970-D dimes graded higher than MS 67 FT even without the variety. I have a few 1970-D FS-801s, but none higher than MS 66. This one is in an ANACS holder at MS 66, but a good example of an early die state FS-801.

 

r057xk.jpg

 

2n1c2s7.jpg

 

This one is close to FT. But no cigar.

 

Thanks! I was very glad to see this coin come back with the 67FT grade. Although I haven't had much luck selling it. Anyhow, NGC has 2 1970-D Dimes graded MS68FT and only 7 graded MS67FT. My 67FT FS-801 makes the 8th coin in the 67FT grade.

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I'm reviving this thread from last month to announce that NGC will now be recognizing the REV OF 68 for 1969, 1970 and 1970-D dime under its VarietyPlus Service.

 

When sending in raw coins for grading and variety attribution, just check the VarietyPlus box and write in the Variety field which variety you're looking to have added. For coins already certified by NGC, this variety can be added under VarietyPlus Service without having to get them graded again. The fee is likewise $15.

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I'm reviving this thread from last month to announce that NGC will now be recognizing the REV OF 68 for 1969, 1970 and 1970-D dime under its VarietyPlus Service.

 

When sending in raw coins for grading and variety attribution, just check the VarietyPlus box and write in the Variety field which variety you're looking to have added. For coins already certified by NGC, this variety can be added under VarietyPlus Service without having to get them graded again. The fee is likewise $15.

 

Very cool. It's a very easy variety to identify. And it seems that in the past few months, there has been an uptick in interest in the variety. It was added to the latest Cherrypickers' Guide and there was a write up in CONECA's ErrorScope about FS-901 in the Mar/Apr issue of 2014.

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are you guys still interested in seeing the 1969 P with the reverse FS-901

 

Certainly. By all means.

 

...And welcome aboard.

 

Computer issues might prevent or delay a response.

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Ran across this thread and thought I'd comment.  I went thru $100 in dimes this past week and probably found 10 of these errors.  More were P than D but didn't find any 1969's.

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On 11/7/2014 at 8:49 AM, Mr. Smith Guesser said:

For the past several months, I've been quite interested in the Cherrypickers' FS-901 variety found on the 1969-P, 1970-P, and 1970-D Roosevelt dimes. And I just wanted to post an update on what I've learned about the variety so far.

 

If you're not already familiar with this variety, I'll quickly sum it up:

 

There are two reverse design varieties found on 1969-P, 1970-P, and 1970-D Roosevelt dimes. The first is the correct reverse design intended for the dates, called RDV-001 by CONECA. The second, called RDV-002 by CONECA and listed as FS-901 in the Cherrypickers' Guide, was originally intended to be used on the 1968 proof reverse. However, the 1968 proof reverse somehow found its way onto 1969-P, 1970-P, and 1970-D business-struck Roosevelt dimes.

 

The correct reverse (RDV-001) features the torch flame in low relief, while the 1968-S reverse (RDV-002 & FS-901) has two deeper valleys in the flame. The difference is obvious to the naked eye.

 

dnjd6s.jpg

 

It is believed (although unconfirmed) that in 1969 and 1970 the mints had a deficit of working reverse dies for Roosevelt dimes and simply made the decision to use surplus reverse dies, which just happened to be the 1968 proof reverse, to continue production.

 

There is pretty good evidence that the use of the 1968 proof reverse was intentional. The variety is found on Roosevelts from both the Philadelphia and Denver mints, and across two years of production. It would be unlikely that an unintentional mistake would be made at both mints and across the two years. Furthermore, we can make the good assumption that there were in fact a significant number of surplus 1968 proof reverse dies; evident in the availability of mint cancelled 1968-S die and collar sets on the market. These are often still found for sale on eBay.

 

After collecting this variety for the past several months, I've found a significant discrepancy in the availability of FS-901 across the three Roosevelt dates/mints.

 

I've found that the 1970-D FS-901 is the easiest to find by far. Most of the 1970-D FS-901s that I've found have been well circulated, although uncirculated coins can be found with a little searching.

 

260pmb9.jpg

The variety is impossible to see in this photo. But trust me, they're all well circulated 1970-D FS-901s.

 

The 1970-P FS-901 is a bit harder to find in general. But I've found that, unlike its Denver counterpart, the 1970-P FS-901 is quite difficult to find uncirculated. I've been able to get my hands on a few very good AU examples, but have not been able to located a really nice MS coin.

 

Then there's the 1969-P FS-901. After searching for this coin for nearly nine months, I haven't seen even a single example of this coin in any grade...not even in a photograph! In fact, the only evidence that I can find for the existence of the 1969-P FS-901 is in the writings of other authors and in the PCGS population report. (NGC doesn't recognize the variety)

 

In total, PCGS has a population of only seven 1969-P FS-901s; three at MS 63 and four at MS 64. And no, there is no photograph of the coin on their website: http://www.pcgscoinfacts.com/Coin/Detail/511012?redir=t

 

If you have a 1969-P FS-901, please post a photograph!

 

It should also be noted that, even on the uncirculated 1970-D FS-901 coins, I have seen several with significant strike issues. I can only guess that this is a result of slight differences in the business and proof reverse dies, resulting in incorrect pressure.

 

2ytr79y.png

All uncirculated 1970-D FS-901 with reverse strike issues.

 

I really like this variety because I find some humor in it. I like to imagine that someone at the Treasury Department was confronted with the reverse die dilemma and made the decision just to use the surplus 1968 proof reverse dies thinking, 'Eh, no one will notice. It's close enough.'

 

I've had three uncirculated 1970-D FS-901s graded; one by PCGS and two others by ANACS, all graded MS 65:

 

5d4i28.jpg

 

I've also just recently found a 1970-D graded MS 66 by PCGS and with the FS-901 variety; but the variety is undesignated. This coin is currently on its way back to PCGS for variety designation. Once designated, this coin will be top pop 1/3 (excluding one at MS 66 FB).

 

15z5mr7.jpg1z2huuu.jpgkccfgz.jpg

 

Again, if you have a 1969-P FS-901, please post a photograph. I'd love to see it.

 

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I found this 1969 p dime in my change, it looks like an rdv-002. I can't seem to find any new info on how common it is, since the variety has been identified. I know it's a beater coin, but It's definitely interesting.

Screenshot_2019-11-13-10-24-43.png

Screenshot_2019-11-13-12-50-53.png

Edited by robenaus
Mis spelling and wrong photo attached at first. Sorry, I'm a newbie!!!!

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NGC has designated 2 out of 117 graded for 1969 and 0 of 15 FT. PCGS shows 16 out of 250 and 2 of 7 FB (I think). Their price guide shows $5 for regular MS64 and $300 for the FS-901, but no auction results. They show a price guide of $50 at MS60 but nothing in grades lower than that. ANACS shows 7 of 50 including 2 details coins. I don't see any sold on Heritage, but there is a 1970-D in MS66 that sold for $84. Someone on ebay is trying to sell a raw 1969 as FT for $2500, but ya know...

Hope it helps.

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I have a few extra NGC graded MS66 1969, 1970 and 1971 varieties if someone is looking for some.;)

Edited by Six Mile Rick

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