... Break Out Coin. Opinions Please
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12 posts in this topic

I purchased this raw 1723 1/2 P Woods Hibernia from a reputable dealer (from my experience) a while back and just realized that it was graded and slabbed at one time prior by NGC in an MS61BN holder.

 

Link On Heritage Pictures At Bottom

 

I was not aware that it had been broken out and, and more than likely, resubmitted numerous times to try to receive a higher grade. I have had it listed for sell as a UNC raw coin, which would be accurate, however I have just found the above referenced breakout.

 

Question I have is this; based upon the following photos that I took, under varying lighting conditions, would it seem as though the coin was broke out, and then attempts were made to doctor the coin, or, based upon the original HA photos, is it possible the coin was broke out and not doctored, only resubmitted without ever achieving a higher grade?

 

I ask these questions so I can determine if I need to remove the listing, now knowing what I do know.

 

 

Picture taken using non diffused lighting at a high angle.

1723_Woods_Hibernia_Half_Penny.jpg

 

 

Picture taken with LED lighting, diffused and at a close angle to the coin.

1723_Half_Penny_Woods_Hibernia_02.jpg

 

 

In Slab

 

WoodsHibernia_Obverse.jpg

 

WoodsHibernia_Reverse.jpg

 

 

 

Edited by wdrob
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You probably have no way of knowing if anything was done to the coin. I think you are fine selling it described as "uncirculated" and noting the previous NGC grade.

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I have to agree with Kenny's assessment. To me it looks as if there is slight rub and betting the resubmits got the AU grade and that's why it was sold to you raw.

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First:

Disclose what you have discovered to potential buyers, and let them decide for themselves.

 

I want to state that the title was a poor choice and intended to be somewhat 'tongue and cheek' which was probably perceived just as you, by others. So with that, I will quote my original post: "a reputable dealer (from my experience)"

 

I still feel that way so there is really nothing for me to disclose. Sorry about that.

 

Mark, I will do as you suggest, however, since eBay has the policy of no remarks of grade or outside links i their listing, I will just have to find a innocuous way of making that clear.

 

Sam and Kenny, as far as the 'friction' or 'rub' is concerned, could you be more specific so I can see what you are referring to?

 

Thanks for the opinions.

 

 

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I suppose it could be a combination of toning and strike, but it looks like friction on the cheek and in the hair on the obverse as well as some friction on the reverse, especially at the knee and breast.

 

If you are looking for an innocuous way to describe the item I would use something like this if you wanted to work it in as Mark suggested:

 

“This coin was purchased raw from a dealer, and upon further research, I discovered that it previously sold at Heritage Auction House in a NGC MS61 BN holder for $$$ (include link or at least auction # and lot number).”

 

If eBay gives you a hard time about it, just remove the grade and include a link to the Heritage Auction site. :)

 

Edited by coinman_23885
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Thanks Kenny for pinpointing that for me. I see the breast mark and was not sure if that was what was being referenced or if it was possibly the head, which to some might seem as though it was PMD, however it is actually just the result of the Martin 4.15-Gc.37a die marriage.

 

I compared it with Newmans example ( http://coins.ha.com/itm/colonials/1723-1-2p-hibernia-halfpenny-ms62-brown-ngc-martin-415-gc37a-w-13120-r2/a/1145-3096.s ) of the same die marriage and thought it looked pretty close when I bought it.

 

I just removed it from eBay. Not worth the trouble. As for resubmitting to NGC ... not going to happen by me. Let me rephrase that ... I don't think it is going to happen by me. Absolutes tend to get me into trouble. ;)

 

 

 

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I just removed it from eBay. Not worth the trouble.

 

If you sold the coin in a heat sealed flip and then sold the coin with a short return privilege and provided good images ahead of time, I'm not sure that it would create problems for you at all. While you can obviously do whatever you wish with your coin, I wouldn't remove it from eBay; it's a nice coin. There are collectors out there that will appreciate the coin.

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For me it seemed that the rub was on the cheek, brow, hair and neckline, reverse, breast and knee. That could be the way the coin toned though.

 

Fair enough. I appreciate that observation.

 

Disclose what you have discovered to potential buyers, and let them decide for themselves.

 

Afterword: I misunderstood the meaning of what you had said above so disregard my previous response. I totally missed the intent on that one. Now after re-reading it, I see what you were suggesting. Thanks.

 

 

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