Old Gold Experts - What all is wrong with this coin?
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I see a big difference. There are still some small traces of putty (or this could be an artifact in the images), but most of it appears to be gone and the coin is better off without it in my opinion. My next question for you is, how accurate is the white balance in the image? Is the color that unnatural in hand or is it closer to what one would expect from the issue in hand? I'm thinking PCGS still got this one correct on the cleaning determination, but at least it doesn't have the distracting putty (it could have continued to turn and become even more conspicuous). It still would make a nice album coin for a type set if you want to do something like that (I would not resubmit the coin).

 

With regard to reasons for the puttying at a coin at this grade level, I can think of a couple. One, the coin could have been puttied to make the surfaces appear smoother and be sold to a novice/unknowing buyer as "mint state." I think the wear was still apparent from the beginning, but you would be surprised at the coins that some collectors buy as "mint state." The second possible explanation is that the coin was a test piece for a coin doctor who wanted to experiment on lower graded material before trying with higher graded pieces.

 

Actually I am in the small bathroom and between the fumes and the smoke from my cigar -- this is getting pretty rough! :insane:

 

 

 

:roflmao:

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Well to me it looks like some solid gold color in hand. I can rotate it just outside the direct light and I get full cartwheel luster. I took two more pictures below against a different black background but I just can't seem to capture what I see, probably since the pictures are so detailed and in hand it is only 27mm so you just don't see as much imperfections.

 

DSCN1738a1.jpg

 

 

DSCN1740a1.jpg

 

 

I am including this video on youtube I just posted since I think it captures the color and overall coin better. But I think it is apparent that the scratches seen in the photos here are from a previous cleaning and I agree that PCGS nailed it. Someone must have just thought they could putty up the evidence of cleaning and get past the graders. Fail!

 

 

Seems that the video did not come out very good. I should have uploaded it in HD. Oh well.

 

Corrected that.

 

 

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So with the putty gone, do you like it better, worse, or the same?

 

I like it very much (better). I knew it was a problem coin when I bought it so what you guided me through was a learning experience with acetone since I have not used it until now. Seems to work very well.

 

I changed the video and the newer one is much better quality and allows you to see more of what I see when holding it.

 

I do not think I will send it in just to get it placed back in a details holder so I will just keep it in one of my little Kraft envelopes and let mother nature work her magic.

 

Thanks for all the help Kenny. It was very much appreciated.

 

Bill

 

 

 

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I think the soak may be over with. I really don't see it needing to get any better than this, imo.

 

The amount of scratches, gouges, or whatever you wish to call them was really not a reason to put putty on that coin since it would have been limited by strike and wear anyway. What a waste of time on both accounts.

 

I think it looks pretty good now. Of-course I can see it in hand and not magnified like these pictures and the color and luster is there and actually much nicer than the following photo would lead one to believe.

 

I think it might could actually grade XF details free now. At least VF details free but from comparing to photograde I am seeing XF.

 

 

1908_D_10_Dollar_Gold_Indian_After_Acetone_2hrs.jpg

 

 

 

See any difference?

 

 

 

 

I agree that there would be no good reason to apply putty to such a coin. For that reason, my belief is that we were seeing something else.

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I post this piece for education purposes for those who might be confused about the natural and unnatural color issue. Although this is a Mint State coin, a circulated piece with natural surfaces would have a similar color.

 

1907TenDolO.jpg1907TenDolR.jpg

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I agree that there would be no good reason to apply putty to such a coin. For that reason, my belief is that we were seeing something else.

 

What do you think caused the discoloration/milky look?

 

Edited to add images in one consolidated place.

 

1908_D_10_Dollar_Gold_Indian_Cracked_layingFlat.jpg

 

1908_D_10_Dollar_Gold_Indian_Cracked_After_Acetone.jpg

 

1908_D_10_Dollar_Gold_Indian_After_Acetone_2hrs.jpg

 

Edited by coinman_23885

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Maybe it is the coffee filters that I have over my flexible desk lamps and my c ra ppy camera. lol

 

These are stills from the video i took that makes it look more cloesly to what it looks like to me in hand.

 

 

youtube02.jpg

 

youtube01.jpg

 

 

 

They just don't look like those previous pictures at all. They look more like a coin that had putty on it and then was bathed in acetone yet still maintain a high level of luster.

 

 

1908_D_10_Dollar_Gold_Indian_Better_Color.jpg

 

 

 

Edited by wdrob

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One can surely see why someone puttied it now. They apparently were trying to cover a previously cleaned coin and PCGS was right on top of that one. I don't see this ever making a problem free holder, which actually means, it will never again see a holder. :/

 

I learned a good bit about gold, putty, and acetone. I had never used it before. I guess it will work similarly on Silver without destructive results. I have a 1958 Dime that I think I will test it out on.

 

 

 

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I learned a good bit about...acetone. I had never used it before. I guess it will work similarly on Silver without destructive results. I have a 1958 Dime that I think I will test it out on.

 

Acetone works well on silver as well. I occasionally buy raw coins from eBay, and every now and then a seller will mail the coin to me in a plasticized flip (i.e. there is PVC). :mad: I bathe those coins prior to placing them in new flips or prior to slabbing.

 

Acetone is great for removing many (but not all) types of artificial toning, PVC, and many other surface contaminants.

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I'm Sold!!!! :whee:

 

I should have experimented with it long ago on a AT 1904 Indian Cent that was high MS grade but some guy on eBay thinks it is better to AT a coin ( he states it up front that the coins are AT) so I bought it, somewhat cheap, thinking I could save it with what I have around here.

 

Maybe it would not have worked on copper. I did finally get rid of the AT and just about every bit of mint luster that coin had. Sad. I wish that guy wouldn't intentionally ruin old coins like that.

 

The condition I bought it thinking I could save it.

 

1.JPG

 

 

 

The results from my unsuccessful attempts to salvage that nice coin.

 

DSCN5434b.jpg

 

 

 

 

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I have never tried acetone on a copper coin personally. I use acetone primarily with gold, silver coins, and I have used it on some nickel pieces in the past.

 

Edited to add: I was thinking of MS70 on copper and not acetone, sorry for that.

Edited by coinman_23885

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I think I remember the experiment you are talking about. If I am not mistaken it was an Indian Head 1 Cent as well. That is what inspired me to try and fix the 1904 above.

 

I still have the coin, in a small kraft envelope and sitting in the safe. I guess it will eventually tone over 100% but I don't think it will be that pretty kind of toning.

 

I just realized that a 1904 Indian Cent is actually Bronze and not Copper. hm

 

 

 

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I just realized that a 1904 Indian Cent is actually Bronze and not Copper. hm

 

 

Bronze = Copper (mostly) + Tin

 

I believe Indian Head Cents are 95% copper.

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I have never tried acetone on a copper coin personally. I use acetone primarily with gold, silver coins, and I have used it on some nickel pieces in the past.

 

Edited to add: I was thinking of MS70 on copper and not acetone, sorry for that.

 

I have used acetone on white metal and aluminum pieces with success when those items had PVC on them. The tokens in question were political pieces from a very large collection. The owner had left them in their original auction flips which had broken down and deposited a coat slim and green on them. Fortunately the tokens were not damaged, and I was able to remove the PVC.

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I never did add a final update picture on the status of that 1908-D No Motto but I believe all the putty was removed successfully and, although this picture is not completely accurate of how it looks now, I took it with my iPad since I think my camera may have bought the farm.

 

In hand the coin is very lustrous and the marks that show up in the picture are hardly as noticeable. The color is slightly darker golden than the picture represents. You have to put a glass to it to see any scratches and they really do not seem to differ much from what I see on a MS61 or MS62. The details I believe are that of an AU55 to AU58 but I really think it will grade problem free now that there is no more putty on it. I am willing to give it a try next year.

 

This picture will allow others to see just how well, in my opinion, the acetone worked at removing the putty.

 

 

2176709_Full_Obv.jpg

 

 

 

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