1880 CC Morgan Dollar hairline scratches on face of Liberty

[wem-migration]

I recently started collecting Morgan Silver Dollars. It seems the more I read, the more questions I have. I also have not figured out how to post pictures on this forum however the Ebay web address is below. The Morgan dollar I bought is an 1880 CC. The coin is beautiful and very reflective as can be seen in the pictures. However there are hair line scratches on the face of Liberty that can only be seen at a certain angle. The picture on Ebay shows the scratches and makes them look a little worse than they look in person. I am thinking about returning the coin and would appreciate any advice I can get. What grade do you think the coin would receive or would it be rejected by NGC?

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1880-CC-Morgan-Silver-Dollar-Carson-City-Mint-Silver-Coin-Very-Reflective-/121187403070?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT&nma=true&si=7ROYXgOzT%252BiWGL0C5udAuY5YdA0%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

 

Thank you in advance for your help.

Bill

[BillJones]

My guess is NGC will grade it, but it probably won't get the MS-65 you might think it deserves. The scratches on the face look suspiciously like something that got there from a numismatic storage device, like an album slide. They are not straight like an album slide mark might appear, but they are not something the coin got while it was stored in a bag of silver dollars. In the old days, album slide marks were bad news, but I don't think that they are frowned upon as much today.

 

The coin is okay, and my guess slab grade would be MS-64. There is very little difference in price for the 1880-CC between MS-63 and MS-64 (Gray Sheet (Coin Dealer Newsletter) "bid" range $530 to $600) so if you paid somewhere in that range for a raw coin it's okay. You should pay less for a raw coin because (1) you are bearing the risk for the slab grade and (2) you are bearing the costs to get it graded.

 

The MS-65 bid is $1,080, which is one more reason why I don't think that this piece will get an MS-65. The grading services usually avoid giving the higher grade to a marginal coin which has a big jump for one grading point.

 

[johnny9434]

yes to what bill jones said and welcome to the forums as well.

[Walkerfan]

I, personally, would be reluctant to buy that coin raw.

[wem-migration]

Thanks for the help. I would be happy with any MS grade. I was concerned the scratch marks might have been from someone trying to clean the coin. I paid $408 for the coin.

[Mark T]

I do not like the look of this coin - I think it would get a details grade if submitted.

[BillJones]

At $408 I would pass. Having looked at the coin again, that spot might be a place where someone tried to remove a spot with a physical device, like sandpaper. As such that coin would not get a grade.

[Coinbuf]

The seller even states in the auction that the coin appears cleaned, and I would say from the pics that it is cleaned/whizzed/buffed, or something along the lines of those three. If its not too late I'd return for a refund as you now have a problem coin that may only be worth melt.

[mtnstyne]

First impression is cleaned and won't grade.

[wem-migration]

Thanks again for the help and the welcome. I just received the coin yesterday so it is not too late to return it. I just wrote to the seller and told him I am going to return the dollar in the morning.

 

[MarkFeld]

Welcome to the forum.

 

Others might disagree, but I feel it is unfair to the seller to return an auction coin for something that was apparent in the listing image. In fact, you even stated "The picture on Ebay shows the scratches and makes them look a little worse than they look in person." Think how you would feel if you were the seller.

 

Either way, it's better to ask questions before you bid. And if you want a graded coin, it wouldn't be a bad idea to buy a graded coin.

[wdrob]

it is unfair to the seller to return an auction coin for something that was apparent in the listing image. In fact, you even stated "The picture on Ebay shows the scratches and makes them look a little worse than they look in person." Think how you would feel if you were the seller.

 

Your not alone. I was thinking the same thing. Add to that the seller even said in the listing the coin was cleaned.

[Coinbuf]

Welcome to the forum.

 

Others might disagree, but I feel it is unfair to the seller to return an auction coin for something that was apparent in the listing image. In fact, you even stated "The picture on Ebay shows the scratches and makes them look a little worse than they look in person." Think how you would feel if you were the seller.

 

Either way, it's better to ask questions before you bid. And if you want a graded coin, it wouldn't be a bad idea to buy a graded coin.

 

Hmmm while I understand your thinking and agree to a point thats a very slippery slope. And in this case no it's not unfair because the seller sold on a venue which allows the buyer to return, thus he has accepted the risk of returns. Also what rules does ebay have on selling a cleaned/damaged item? If the seller was in violation of any rules in this regard then a return would also be perfectly fair.

[MarkFeld]

Welcome to the forum.

 

Others might disagree, but I feel it is unfair to the seller to return an auction coin for something that was apparent in the listing image. In fact, you even stated "The picture on Ebay shows the scratches and makes them look a little worse than they look in person." Think how you would feel if you were the seller.

 

Either way, it's better to ask questions before you bid. And if you want a graded coin, it wouldn't be a bad idea to buy a graded coin.

 

Hmmm while I understand your thinking and agree to a point thats a very slippery slope. And in this case no it's not unfair because the seller sold on a venue which allows the buyer to return, thus he has accepted the risk of returns. Also what rules does ebay have on selling a cleaned/damaged item? If the seller was in violation of any rules in this regard then a return would also be perfectly fair.

 

I'm not aware of any Ebay rule that prevents sellers from offering cleaned or damaged coins. And in this case, unlike the vast majority of sellers, this one even described his coin as cleaned.

 

The fact that a seller allows returns and takes that risk, doesn't automatically make all returns fair. To return a coin that looks better in hand than in the seller's image, strikes me as very unfair.

[Coinbuf]

Welcome to the forum.

 

Others might disagree, but I feel it is unfair to the seller to return an auction coin for something that was apparent in the listing image. In fact, you even stated "The picture on Ebay shows the scratches and makes them look a little worse than they look in person." Think how you would feel if you were the seller.

 

Either way, it's better to ask questions before you bid. And if you want a graded coin, it wouldn't be a bad idea to buy a graded coin.

 

Hmmm while I understand your thinking and agree to a point thats a very slippery slope. And in this case no it's not unfair because the seller sold on a venue which allows the buyer to return, thus he has accepted the risk of returns. Also what rules does ebay have on selling a cleaned/damaged item? If the seller was in violation of any rules in this regard then a return would also be perfectly fair.

 

I'm not aware of any Ebay rule that prevents sellers from offering cleaned or damaged coins. And in this case, unlike the vast majority of sellers, this one even described his coin as cleaned.

 

The fact that a seller allows returns and takes that risk, doesn't automatically make all returns fair. To return a coin that looks better in hand than in the seller's image, strikes me as very unfair.

 

Understood; and I agree that the buyer should have payed more attention to the listing before bidding/buying a raw and likely cleaned coin. But to be fair and accurate the seller does not describe the coin as is cleaned but rather says "looks cleaned on liberty's cheek". Looks cleaned and is cleaned are two different statements and "looks cleaned" could be designed to mislead. And as such the retun is fair imo.

[e1cnr]

I have rarely returned eBay items - I do try to learn from my purchasing mistakes - I would keep it, along with printout from auction.

 

I would take it to a show, or local dealer and see what they think of it - see if the surfaces are original or polished and whether the marks on face are slide marks or cleaning....

 

If $400 is too expensive a lesson, then learn some more, take some classes.. before spending that much on a coin again (without advice before purchasing).

[MarkFeld]

Welcome to the forum.

 

Others might disagree, but I feel it is unfair to the seller to return an auction coin for something that was apparent in the listing image. In fact, you even stated "The picture on Ebay shows the scratches and makes them look a little worse than they look in person." Think how you would feel if you were the seller.

 

Either way, it's better to ask questions before you bid. And if you want a graded coin, it wouldn't be a bad idea to buy a graded coin.

 

Hmmm while I understand your thinking and agree to a point thats a very slippery slope. And in this case no it's not unfair because the seller sold on a venue which allows the buyer to return, thus he has accepted the risk of returns. Also what rules does ebay have on selling a cleaned/damaged item? If the seller was in violation of any rules in this regard then a return would also be perfectly fair.

 

I'm not aware of any Ebay rule that prevents sellers from offering cleaned or damaged coins. And in this case, unlike the vast majority of sellers, this one even described his coin as cleaned.

 

The fact that a seller allows returns and takes that risk, doesn't automatically make all returns fair. To return a coin that looks better in hand than in the seller's image, strikes me as very unfair.

 

Understood; and I agree that the buyer should have payed more attention to the listing before bidding/buying a raw and likely cleaned coin. But to be fair and accurate the seller does not describe the coin as is cleaned but rather says "looks cleaned on liberty's cheek". Looks cleaned and is cleaned are two different statements and "looks cleaned" could be designed to mislead. And as such the retun is fair imo.

 

Unfortunately, we don't know if the coin has been cleaned or what the seller's intent was. What we do know, however, is that the buyer wrote "The picture on Ebay shows the scratches and makes them look a little worse than they look in person". To me, that is the overriding consideration.

 

Fear not, I am through beating a dead horse and I respect your right to disagree.

[$ilverHawk]

Welcome to the forum.

 

Others might disagree, but I feel it is unfair to the seller to return an auction coin for something that was apparent in the listing image. In fact, you even stated "The picture on Ebay shows the scratches and makes them look a little worse than they look in person." Think how you would feel if you were the seller.

 

Either way, it's better to ask questions before you bid. And if you want a graded coin, it wouldn't be a bad idea to buy a graded coin.

 

Hmmm while I understand your thinking and agree to a point thats a very slippery slope. And in this case no it's not unfair because the seller sold on a venue which allows the buyer to return, thus he has accepted the risk of returns. Also what rules does ebay have on selling a cleaned/damaged item? If the seller was in violation of any rules in this regard then a return would also be perfectly fair.

 

I'm not aware of any Ebay rule that prevents sellers from offering cleaned or damaged coins. And in this case, unlike the vast majority of sellers, this one even described his coin as cleaned.

 

The fact that a seller allows returns and takes that risk, doesn't automatically make all returns fair. To return a coin that looks better in hand than in the seller's image, strikes me as very unfair.

 

Understood; and I agree that the buyer should have payed more attention to the listing before bidding/buying a raw and likely cleaned coin. But to be fair and accurate the seller does not describe the coin as is cleaned but rather says "looks cleaned on liberty's cheek". Looks cleaned and is cleaned are two different statements and "looks cleaned" could be designed to mislead. And as such the retun is fair imo.

 

You are parsing the sellers description by arguing the difference between "looks cleaned" and "cleaned". The clearly logical assumption by any buyer is that the coin in question has indications of "cleaning". ergo the coin offered has been cleaned.

 

Now tell me, if you were considering purchasing this coin and you had the sellers description as well as the sellers photographs, would you believe you were purchasing a coin that did not clearly show that it was cleaned?

 

I don't see anything misleading about this listing. Seller listed "looks cleaned". The buyer, perhaps new to the market, did not take elementary steps by communicating with the seller to verify if the coin in question has clear indications of cleaning.

 

I agree with Mark. A buyer has the responsibility to know what he is bidding on.

 

Carl

[Coinbuf]

Welcome to the forum.

 

Others might disagree, but I feel it is unfair to the seller to return an auction coin for something that was apparent in the listing image. In fact, you even stated "The picture on Ebay shows the scratches and makes them look a little worse than they look in person." Think how you would feel if you were the seller.

 

Either way, it's better to ask questions before you bid. And if you want a graded coin, it wouldn't be a bad idea to buy a graded coin.

 

Hmmm while I understand your thinking and agree to a point thats a very slippery slope. And in this case no it's not unfair because the seller sold on a venue which allows the buyer to return, thus he has accepted the risk of returns. Also what rules does ebay have on selling a cleaned/damaged item? If the seller was in violation of any rules in this regard then a return would also be perfectly fair.

 

I'm not aware of any Ebay rule that prevents sellers from offering cleaned or damaged coins. And in this case, unlike the vast majority of sellers, this one even described his coin as cleaned.

 

The fact that a seller allows returns and takes that risk, doesn't automatically make all returns fair. To return a coin that looks better in hand than in the seller's image, strikes me as very unfair.

 

Understood; and I agree that the buyer should have payed more attention to the listing before bidding/buying a raw and likely cleaned coin. But to be fair and accurate the seller does not describe the coin as is cleaned but rather says "looks cleaned on liberty's cheek". Looks cleaned and is cleaned are two different statements and "looks cleaned" could be designed to mislead. And as such the retun is fair imo.

 

Unfortunately, we don't know if the coin has been cleaned or what the seller's intent was. What we do know, however, is that the buyer wrote "The picture on Ebay shows the scratches and makes them look a little worse than they look in person". To me, that is the overriding consideration.

 

Fear not, I am through beating a dead horse and I respect your right to disagree.

 

And I am good with that.