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Worth grading? Seated Liberty 50c 1846 O

Started by Egon-migration,

23 posts in this topic

wdrob

wdrob

Posted
Posted

I believe you have the Medium Date and that would make that probably not worth grading at that condition. The Tall Date would be a definite YES!

 

Look at the '4' of this Tall Date and compare to yours. The 4 on yours is closed indicating a Medium Date.

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Coinbuf

Coinbuf

Posted
Posted

Nice coin looks XF45 from the pics, having it graded might help it sell faster if thats your goal. If your plan is to keep it and not for a registry then keeping it raw makes more sense.

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BillJones

BillJones

Posted
Posted
Nice coin looks XF45 from the pics, having it graded might help it sell faster if thats your goal. If your plan is to keep it and not for a registry then keeping it raw makes more sense.

 

I'm sorry, but with all due respect, PLEASE buy a copy of the ANA Grading Guide, Photograde or one of those books. This coin is not even close to EF-45.

An EF-45 is very sharp with lots of detail and maybe a hint of mint luster within the devices. This 1861-O half dollar is an EF-45. Some might try to call it AU-50, but this should give an idea of the EF-45 graded for a Seated Liberty half dollar.

 

1861-OhalfdollarO.jpg1861-OhalfdollarR.jpg

 

The coin that started this thread is a Fine. Some might want to push it to VF-20, but that would be push.

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Coinbuf

Coinbuf

Posted
Posted
Nice coin looks XF45 from the pics, having it graded might help it sell faster if thats your goal. If your plan is to keep it and not for a registry then keeping it raw makes more sense.

 

I'm sorry, but with all due respect, PLEASE buy a copy of the ANA Grading Guide, Photograde or one of those books. This coin is not even close to EF-45.

An EF-45 is very sharp with lots of detail and maybe a hint of mint luster within the devices. This 1861-O half dollar is an EF-45. Some might try to call it AU-50, but this should give an idea of the EF-45 graded for a Seated Liberty half dollar. The coin that started this thread is a Fine. Some might want to push it to VF-20, but that would be push.

 

I'm sorry, but with all due respect, PLEASE get a book from the 20th century. The following is directly from photograde 18th edition, which I do own by the way.

Fine

Obverse: There will be a full liberty on the shield but it will not be sharp

Reverse: About half of the eagles feathers will show.

 

Very Fine

Obverse: Liberty will be sharp. Only the deepest folds of liberty's gown will be visible.

Reverse: Nearly all the major details of the feathers will show. Definite wear will show on the high points of the feathers.

 

Extremely Fine

Obvverse: More detail of liberty's gown will show. There will be wear on liberty's head, breast, and legs.

Reverse: All the feathers will be plainly visible. Ther will be slight wear on the highest tips of the feathers, the tops of the wings, and the claws.

 

I would have scaned and posted the pics from the book for each grade for you but those are not very hd and once scanned thay are not very much use. However from the description and pics in the book the obv clearly has more than just the deepest folds of liberty's gown visible, and all the eagle's feathers are plainly visible. If I am high at a 45 guess then you are just as low with your statment of a fine grade. And just as an experiment I suggest that you send in the coin you pictured, it will come back as an AU53 or better, if it comes back as only a 45 I'll pay all your costs to submit under the regular tier; assuming it straight grades.

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Mark T

Mark T

Posted
Posted

Coinbuff this coin is not XF 45 , looks VF 25 . How could you think this could come back in an AU holder ?? The coin has no luster and has a lot of wear.

Bill – The coin is better than F 15 and your example seems a lot better than XF 45. I would say yours looks at least Au 50 heck I would even go Au 53 as a guess if I did not already know the grade !. Nice coin .

 

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wdrob

wdrob

Posted
Posted
Coinbuff this coin is not XF 45 , looks VF 25 . How could you think this could come back in an AU holder ??

 

Coinbuff never claimed the OP coin would come back as an AU coin. He said that the exa,=mple Bill showed, and claimed was XF, would come back as an AU.

 

Read, Read, Read!

 

 

 

 

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Coinbuf

Coinbuf

Posted
Posted
Coinbuff this coin is not XF 45 , looks VF 25 . How could you think this could come back in an AU holder ?? The coin has no luster and has a lot of wear.

Bill – The coin is better than F 15 and your example seems a lot better than XF 45. I would say yours looks at least Au 50 heck I would even go Au 53 as a guess if I did not already know the grade !. Nice coin .

 

Mark I never said that the OP's coin would grade AU, I was refering to the coin that Bill posted as grading AU.

 

Now my grade comment about the op's coin was off the cuff and I did'nt study the coin that well and its not a series that I collect, so I freely admit that my grade may be incorrect. However, baised on photograde's description and pics(poor as thay are) for the XF grade; as well as the two lower grades leading up to XF, and a review of coins in the Heritage arcives; the op's coin exhibits details that are vastly better than Fine and approach the XF level.

 

And the challange still holds Bill, its clear that you feel I cannot grade so lets go submit that coin you say only grades XF45 and lets see who is correct. Vastly undergrading is a techneque I'm sure you learned as a dealer to buy low and sell high but it does not make you right. I'm not advocating gradeflation, and if you dont agree with how coins are graded thats fine just dont take out your anger on me. I have no idea just what got your panties in such a bunch but the next time you call me out you had better be sure that your right. You may have not have ment it but offense was taken.

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Mark T

Mark T

Posted
Posted
Coinbuff this coin is not XF 45 , looks VF 25 . How could you think this could come back in an AU holder ?? The coin has no luster and has a lot of wear.

Bill – The coin is better than F 15 and your example seems a lot better than XF 45. I would say yours looks at least Au 50 heck I would even go Au 53 as a guess if I did not already know the grade !. Nice coin .

 

Mark I never said that the OP's coin would grade AU, I was refering to the coin that Bill posted as grading AU.

 

Now my grade comment was off the cuff and I did'nt study the coin that well and its not a series that I collect, so I freely admit that my grade may be incorrect. However, baised on photograde's description and pics(poor as thay are) for the XF grade; as well as the two lower grades leading up to XF, and a review of coins in the Heritage arcives; the op's coin exhibits details that are vastly better than Fine and approach the XF level.

 

And the challange still holds Bill, its clear that you feel I cannot grade so lets go submit that coin you say only grades XF45 and lets see who is correct. Vastly undergrading is a techneque I'm sure you learned as a dealer to buy low and sell high but it does not make you right. I'm not advocating gradeflation, and if you dont agree with how coins are graded thats fine just dont take out your anger on me. I have no idea just what got your panties in such a bunch but the next time you call me out you had better be sure that your right. You may have not have ment it but offense was taken.

 

 

Ok I misunderstood your post. As for the original coin in question – it looks like a solid VF , the coin has way to much wear and no luster so that in itself would keep it below XF.

As for Bills coin – pretty much everything I have seen from his collection is PQ for the grade. As I said in my first post I think Au 50 would be a fair grade and I could see it as Au 53 based on his photo. Bill has been collecting for a long time – he is often a bit conservative with his grading and will offer much lower grades then others on this board. Regardless he is very knowledgeable and is a great resource for opinions.

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FishyOne

FishyOne

Posted
Posted

It would be gradeflation to call the OPs coin XF45. I think VF35 is fair unless it was marked down a touch for the rim bumps, then VF30.

 

Lack of luster and the general "VFish" surface appearance prevent it from making XF40.

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BillJones

BillJones

Posted
Posted
Bill – I must be asleep at the wheel. Your coin is raw, a comparison would carry more weight if you posted a certified XF 45.

 

I don't have a piece in a certified EF-45 holder.

 

This coin (1839 No Drapery half dollar, a tough type coin) was graded EF-45 when I bought raw about 25 years ago from JJ Teaparty. Today it is in an AU-58 holder. With all due respect to our hosts they over graded it. It's still an EF-45 in my opinion with a shot, but no more than that, to make AU-50 in a holder.

 

1839NoDrapHalfDolO.jpg1839NoDrapHalfDolR.jpg

 

Grade-flation" is a backdoor way to raise coins prices without an increase in collector demand. The services quietly lower the standards, but price catalogs continue to show prices based on the previous grading standards. The services did this with many key day coins. In the old days an 1877 Indian cent in Fine had a full "LIBERTY." Some letters could be weak or blurry, but they were represented. The new standard was the old standard for VG or even less, three letters of the "LIBERTY." I've seen pieces in Fine holders that virtually none of the letters in "LIBERTY" visible.

 

The same thing happened to the 1916-D Mercury dime. The old standard said that all of the vertical lines on the ax had to show on a VF coin. Then the services changed that. Now only half the lines, which used to be the standard for VG, show a VF. You have to buy a EF coin to get one in what used to be VF. Interestingly the prices did come down on the VF, but not to the point where it was at the VG or even the Fine price.

 

I learned this when a customer gave me a want list for the 1916-D Mercury dime. He told me he wanted one with all of the lines on the ax, and I thought VF. I looked up the price on the Gray Sheet, thought, "Darn, that looks low." When I went shopping for the coin, I found out why. You didn't get a certified VF coin any more for THAT level of VF money. You got an old time VG.

 

You can stand by and put up with "grade-flation," but I would prefer to see prices increase because of the demand, or perhaps in some way from a decrease in supply. (Perhaps a bunch of coins taken off the market and hoarded. ???) I don't want to see them artificially increased because of lowered grading standards.

 

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wheat'swheats

wheat'swheats

Posted
Posted

I think that Mr. Jones's half would grade xf is due to the hits on the arm and to me it looks like (from the photo) the reverse had an old cleaning. Otherwise I believe the coin would indeed be in the AU range. In my opinion the OP's coin is in the xf range but it is really close to whether or not it is 40 or 45.

wheat

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jimjum12

jimjum12

Posted
Posted

VF 25 for me...... just not enough hair detail for more. As for Bill..... I pay very close attention to all of Bill's grades, as they reflect an assessment level at which the coin will turn over, cash money changing hands, with a happy return customer....... and that really is what grading is designed for. GOD BLESS....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

P.S. I would buy a coin from Bill based on description alone.......

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