1900 Indian Head - Unc-Details - Stages of treatment images - Reverse Pics added
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More on the 1900 Indian Head Cent graded Unc-Details/Altered Color by NGC.

 

Here are some images of the different stages of treatment.

 

Starting condition - Removed from slab, still in holder.

DSC_0139.jpg

After treatment with Acetone.

DSC_0218-1.jpg

After 2 treatments with MS70

DSC_0390.jpg

After a 3 minute bath in Lindner dip

DSC_0436.jpg

 

DSC_0139-horz.jpg

DSC_0138-horz5.jpg

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Personally I don't like it and it's not worth the cost and effort of trying to conserve it. It would look nice in my 7070 album though! lol

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Personally I don't like it and it's not worth the cost and effort of trying to conserve it. It would look nice in my 7070 album though! lol

 

I'm not worried about the cost to conserve it as I'm doing this as an at home conservation project. More of a copper cleaning lesson than a true conservation. I think I paid $10 for it so I could crack it out and play around with it.

 

 

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This looks a lot like a coin that was artificially toned with some chemicals, and then the toning turned. AT does that. Depending on what was used, this may or may not come off - and may or may not have destroyed the surfaces.

 

I would start with acetone, and see what that does. You may have to dip it, completely remove the top layer, and then try to restore a patina to it.

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The only part about dipping it is that it will give it such an unnatural color that it will most likely be impossible to improve. I do agree with the acetone bath though. Another method to try is diluted MS70.

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The only part about dipping it is that it will give it such an unnatural color that it will most likely be impossible to improve. I do agree with the acetone bath though. Another method to try is diluted MS70.

 

I agree with this and would try this before I would ever consider dipping the coin.

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my take on this coin

 

 

the coin was first cleaned wi5h chemicals trying to make it more red color but it turned into an unnatural coloration

 

then the person/another person used sulfur to try to tone down the coin and make it a more natural coloration but for some reason or another when the coin has already has been washed with chemicals then when you try to sulfur tone a copper coin again already dipped in chemicals the sulfur toning process turns the coin even more uglyier and so it turns out to yuk like this end result

 

classic case

 

 

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my take on this coin

 

 

the coin was first cleaned wi5h chemicals trying to make it more red color but it turned into an unnatural coloration

 

then the person/another person used sulfur to try to tone down the coin and make it a more natural coloration but for some reason or another when the coin has already has been washed with chemicals then when you try to sulfur tone a copper coin again already dipped in chemicals the sulfur toning process turns the coin even more uglyier and so it turns out to yuk like this end result

 

classic case

 

 

Wow - I'm amazed at your assessment.

 

I believe you nailed it. This is what the coin looks like now, after an acetone bath. I think I'm seeing the unnatural color that someone wanted to cover up. The Indian is beginning to turn Purple!

 

DSC_0218.jpg

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I would never use acetone on copper.

 

I know lots of people do, but it often causes copper (especially copper that's already brown in color) to turn a deep purple color (just as you have shown above).

 

I have experimented a lot with low-dollar copper coins, and this is a pretty common outcome with acetone in my experience. Acetone's main function for coin conservation is to remove plastic residue, namely PVC. It doesn't serve much of any other purpose. It won't fix verdi gris, and it isn't the same as "dipping" (dipping a coin implies the use of acid, and it strips surface material -- including toning).

 

I'd try some MS70 as Kenny suggested. I'm not sure this coin is "salvageable" in any real way based on what I can see in the images. (shrug)

 

 

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Mixed messages for sure.

 

The overall message was to start with acetone! Oh well, it was a $10 coin, live and learn.

 

I just purchased some MS70. I think I'll give it a shot and continue my lesson.

 

 

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I would never use acetone on copper.

 

I know lots of people do, but it often causes copper (especially copper that's already brown in color) to turn a deep purple color (just as you have shown above).

 

I have experimented a lot with low-dollar copper coins, and this is a pretty common outcome with acetone in my experience. Acetone's main function for coin conservation is to remove plastic residue, namely PVC. It doesn't serve much of any other purpose. It won't fix verdi gris, and it isn't the same as "dipping" (dipping a coin implies the use of acid, and it strips surface material -- including toning).

 

I'd try some MS70 as Kenny suggested. I'm not sure this coin is "salvageable" in any real way based on what I can see in the images. (shrug)

 

 

Acetone removes any organic contaminants on the surface of the coin - organic compounds would be something that very well could have been applied to this coin. There is no logical or scientific basis that I know of for acetone turning copper purple - acetone does not react with copper. Perhaps there is something else on the surface that it reacts with, but it is mostly a solvent - if properly rinsed, the residues should have all been removed.

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I would never use acetone on copper.

 

I know lots of people do, but it often causes copper (especially copper that's already brown in color) to turn a deep purple color (just as you have shown above).

 

I have experimented a lot with low-dollar copper coins, and this is a pretty common outcome with acetone in my experience. Acetone's main function for coin conservation is to remove plastic residue, namely PVC. It doesn't serve much of any other purpose. It won't fix verdi gris, and it isn't the same as "dipping" (dipping a coin implies the use of acid, and it strips surface material -- including toning).

 

I'd try some MS70 as Kenny suggested. I'm not sure this coin is "salvageable" in any real way based on what I can see in the images. (shrug)

 

 

Acetone removes any organic contaminants on the surface of the coin - organic compounds would be something that very well could have been applied to this coin. There is no logical or scientific basis that I know of for acetone turning copper purple - acetone does not react with copper. Perhaps there is something else on the surface that it reacts with, but it is mostly a solvent - if properly rinsed, the residues should have all been removed.

 

Yes, Jason, I have also heard that "theoretical" explanation before. I don't care if the chemistry says it should turn it purple or not, all I know is that it HAS turned it purple on several occasions when I have put copper in acetone. I'm not the only one who has had this experience. I have even heard a couple copper guys refer to this as "purple monster", and, when it happens, it is almost always on RB coins. I personally never put copper in acetone because of enough negative experiences.

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Mixed messages for sure.

 

The overall message was to start with acetone! Oh well, it was a $10 coin, live and learn.

 

I just purchased some MS70. I think I'll give it a shot and continue my lesson.

 

 

One more thing I forgot to mention earlier - MS70ed copper coins often take on a blue color (which I actually think can be attractive). Many have made it into TPG holders. I think the look would be an improvement personally, but it is worth giving you a heads up on. I agree that the botched AT and/or recoloring attempt shave permanently damaged the coin, so you have nothing to lose by experimentation. If this doesn't work, there are also darkening agents that will make the coin look brown.

Edited by coinman_23885

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The surface of a bronze coin is mostly copper oxide. Acetone reacts with copper oxide. The pure metal also catalyzes the reduction of acetone to CO2 and H2O. A dark purple/magenta color is not out of reason, considering incomplete reactions and contaminants.

 

(Also, if bought at a coin show, one has to be careful about the reaction between yellow mustard from dealer's fingers and acetone.) :)

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Left image shows coin after 2 treatments with MS70. Right image is after 3 minutes in a Lindners bath.

 

DSC_0435-horz.jpg

 

DSC_0436.jpg

 

DSC_0438.jpg

It still has some dark areas but overall I think it looks pretty good......or at least better.

 

Thoughts?

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Actually looks almost natural. Never heard of the Linders treatment before.

Edited by Coindude

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Actually looks almost natural. Never heard of the Linders treatment before.

 

Label says, Lindner Coin Cleaning Dip - Copper-Brass and Tin-Nickel. I have no prior experience with this dip. This was an inexpensive project coin so I had no reservations with giving it a shot.

 

 

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I've used Lindner's before and thought it was an excellent product. I don't buy it because it's too pricey (for me) and I've found other products that work. Acetone is fine to use on cooper, I've never had a problem with it in hundreds of applications.

 

NEVER use MS70 on copper or bronze. I sometimes use Goo-Gone but whatever I use is done non-abrasively at all times.

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I've used Lindner's before and thought it was an excellent product. I don't buy it because it's too pricey (for me) and I've found other products that work. Acetone is fine to use on cooper, I've never had a problem with it in hundreds of applications.

 

NEVER use MS70 on copper or bronze. I sometimes use Goo-Gone but whatever I use is done non-abrasively at all times.

 

Why wouldn't you have used MS70 on this coin? The previous color was very unnatural; the MS70 treatment was an improvement at least as I expected that it would be.

 

Lindner's worked well. It looks like a lot of the Indian Head cents you see in NNC MS67 RD holders on eBay. :devil: I truly appreciate you sharing your results - it turned out well compared to its original state.

 

Edited to add: You may want to repost the original image to remind everyone of what the coin looked like initially.

Edited by coinman_23885

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Here are images of the different stages of treatment.

 

Starting condition - Removed from slab, still in holder.

DSC_0139.jpg

After treatment with Acetone.

DSC_0218-1.jpg

After 2 treatments with MS70

DSC_0390.jpg

After a 3 minute bath in Lindner dip

DSC_0436.jpg

 

 

DSC_0139-horz.jpg

DSC_0138-horz5.jpg

Images added

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There is still something going on around the date, but that is vastly improved. How is the luster? The color appears "stripped" - if you let that regain some patina, it is very likely it would slab problem free, and probably at a pretty good grade. There are almost no marks on the coin, and the luster appears good even after all that dipping and stripping.

 

Can you show comparison pics of the reverse as well?

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There is still something going on around the date, but that is vastly improved. How is the luster? The color appears "stripped" - if you let that regain some patina, it is very likely it would slab problem free, and probably at a pretty good grade. There are almost no marks on the coin, and the luster appears good even after all that dipping and stripping.

 

Can you show comparison pics of the reverse as well?

 

Reverse pics added.

 

Yes, there are issues remaining with this coin. Around the date as you mentioned and there are some scattered dark areas as well.

 

The color has lightened quite a bit and looks a little unnatural. I'm a bit surprised by how much luster is present. I thought the dip would have killed most of it but it really didn't. The directions, for the dip, says to "let coin bathe for 3-5 minutes". I took the coin out of the dip at 3 minutes hoping to keep as much luster as possible. The directions also say that "in extreme cases coins can be dipped for up to 30 Minutes". I'm sure that length of time would kill the remaining luster.

 

Maybe I'll do a series of 1 minute bathes to see if the remaining dark areas can be cleared up.

 

 

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What an improvement on the coin. It might be the lighting, but the coin appears to have a lot of luster left.

 

You might want to conduct a "time" experiment. How many minutes in the bath until all the luster is gone.

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The surface of a bronze coin is mostly copper oxide. Acetone reacts with copper oxide. The pure metal also catalyzes the reduction of acetone to CO2 and H2O. A dark purple/magenta color is not out of reason, considering incomplete reactions and contaminants.

 

(Also, if bought at a coin show, one has to be careful about the reaction between yellow mustard from dealer's fingers and acetone.) :)

 

Makes me wonder if acetone should be used at all on these types of coins. If I was to conduct this experiment again, with this same type of coin, I think I would start with MS 70.

 

I was surprised by how much luster remained after the Lindner dip.

 

 

 

 

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