Seriously, Is This a Genuine or a Fake 1804 Silver Dollar?!
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Hi every body!

 

A friend of mine, who is an amateur coin collector, have a small collection of US coins. Recently when he was showing me his coins, I saw this Liberty coin, and as a person who don't have any knowledge on coins, found it quiet big and heavy and wondered why there is no sign of value on it :) Then the geeky person inside me encouraged me to search Wikipedia to find out whether there is any article about it. After which I found this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1804_silver_dollar. Which says it is a US coin of one dollar value, worth of millions of dollars today.

 

I showed that article to my friend, and he said that he was told that the coin is extremely valuable by a coin expert, who also asked him to sell it to him for a hundred thousand dollars. I asked him about the story behind that coin, and he told me that his entire US coins were a gift from an old Armenian lady in his neighbourhood who claimed that it is a heritage of his father's father who was a christen priest of Iranian origin living in Western Iran, he decided to move to US about 150 years ago and came back to Iran after years of struggle finding happiness in America.

 

We know that there is many fake 1804 Silver Dollars around, but, the story behind this coin suggests that it may be a genuine one. I asked my friend to take pictures of it so that we could find out the true value of this coin. So here it is:

 

I also uploaded big versions of pictures at http://alvandi.org/foo/liberty-1a.jpg and http://alvandi.org/foo/liberty-1b.jpg

138926.jpg.9595b67892097fc103aa6e267fb2faab.jpg

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I would start here. Did you weigh it and measure it?

 

Mass 26.96 g

Diameter 39–40 mm

 

Do that first.

 

But on a side note ... there are a great amount of differences in that and a known to be genuine 1804. If you look at the picture on Wikipedia and that link you sent and carefully compare the two I don't even think you will need to weigh it. There are to many differences. But I am wrong more than I am right so go for it.

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I don't own an 1804 dollar ( :o NOT), but here is an 1802 which is the same general type. The piece you posted in your photo only resembles the real thing.

 

1802DollarOS1.jpg1802DollarRS1.jpg

 

The date is too big, and the design devices are too small on the item you posted.

 

The location of all of the 15 known 1804 silver dollars are known. Back in the 1960's and 1970s, two pieces went missing after they were stolen from the du Pont collection. They have since been recovered.

 

The 1804 dollars have had little to do with Iran. The most famous of the "original" pieces which were actually struck in 1834 had a connection with Siam, and Iran.

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Welcome to the forum.

 

The coin pictured looks nothing like a genuine example. Even a cursory glance at an image of a genuine one will make that obvious.

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Thanks everyone for kind reply.

 

Did you weigh it and measure it

 

The coin weighs 27.50 grams and measures 45 mm in diameter and is 2.5 mm thick.

 

So assuming that the coin is a replica of a genuine example (I'm not quiet convinced yet :) ), does that means the story I just told about that coin is nothing but a joke?

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The only thing definitely genuine about the original posters dollar is that it is a fake and not a very good one either. I would suspect that the story told to you is almost if not equally as fake. Try sticking a magnet to it, silver is not magnetic and I'm betting this coin is made of some sort of base metal.

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Welcome to the forum.

 

The coin pictured looks nothing like a genuine example. Even a cursory glance at an image of a genuine one will make that obvious.

 

This. It is not even close. The acclaimed "expert" is clearly not an expert at all (if this is a true story, which I doubt that it is).

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Try sticking a magnet to it, silver is not magnetic and I'm betting this coin is made of some sort of base metal.

 

Well apparently, it is magnetic. So I'm giving to understand that it is definitely not a genuine 1804 Silver Dollar. Another question here, As silly as this may sound, is there any possibility that the coin is still a real coin but just a regular old coin. Perhaps one that happen to be minted in the year 1804? I'm trying to figure out that is there any possibility that the story being told to my friend is a true story, because he has dozens of US coins and to this date he believed that all of them are real US coins.

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Try sticking a magnet to it, silver is not magnetic and I'm betting this coin is made of some sort of base metal.

 

Well apparently, it is magnetic. So I'm giving to understand that it is definitely not a genuine 1804 Silver Dollar. Another question here, As silly as this may sound, is there any possibility that the coin is still a real coin but just a regular old coin. Perhaps one that happen to be minted in the year 1804? I'm trying to figure out that is there any possibility that the story being told to my friend is a true story, because he has dozens of US coins and to this date he believed that all of them are real US coins.

 

No. This is not a real, or genuine, U.S. Minted coin. This coin was produced as a counterfeit to do what it has done already, to fool someone who is not knowledgable enough to know the difference. You're story is also quite difficult to buy, just like the coin. Any "coin expert" would know that this coin is a complete fake. I've only been collecting coins for a few years and although I'm not an expert, I feel quite confident in saying that it's not genuine.

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I have a replica that is very close if not identical to yours. It was given to me for free as a novelty item. That should help in determining the value.

Welcome to the world of coins. There are a lot of scammers out there so be careful....

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Do you have a link to a particular coin? If it is a US coin, and it is from China, there is very little possibility that it is genuine.

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Hello everyone, I  have question, a guy that i know i saying that one of his friends has a 1804 dollar and its worth alots of money. So he asked me if I can find out how much its worth? 

I personally don't know where that person got that dollar from?

My question is I i post the picture of that dollar here and some how its no a legit dollar or maybe stolen. Am I legally responsible for that or do any authorities come after me? Or it's safe here on ngccoin to post picture? Please i need advice i don't wanna do somebody a favor and get in trouble on the other hand.

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4 hours ago, Adventureneverstops said:

Hello everyone, I  have question, a guy that i know i saying that one of his friends has a 1804 dollar and its worth alots of money. So he asked me if I can find out how much its worth? 

I personally don't know where that person got that dollar from?

My question is I i post the picture of that dollar here and some how its no a legit dollar or maybe stolen. Am I legally responsible for that or do any authorities come after me? Or it's safe here on ngccoin to post picture? Please i need advice i don't wanna do somebody a favor and get in trouble on the other hand.

First of all, the odds are astronomical against it being genuine. Smart money says assume it's fake until proven real. So my initial guess is that it won't be worth $1, and that no effort expended on it is worth your time.

I don't think anyone here is likely to be able to give you legal advice. However, if you have reason to believe that the coin is stolen or counterfeited, especially if you are enabling these guys to entertain the fantasy that it's real, then surely you are concerned enough to contact the authorities and see if it also concerns them.

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It is almost certainly one of the tens or hundreds of thousands of fakes floating around.  You won't get in any trouble for posting a picture of a fake.  There are none of the known genuine coins that are stolen at the moment so there is no chance of it being a stolen specimen.  And if by some chance it is genuine, the authorities ar NOT going to come after it.  The 1804 dollars have a long history of being accepted as legal to own.

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7 hours ago, JKK said:

First of all, the odds are astronomical against it being genuine. Smart money says assume it's fake until proven real. So my initial guess is that it won't be worth $1, and that no effort expended on it is worth your time.

I don't think anyone here is likely to be able to give you legal advice. However, if you have reason to believe that the coin is stolen or counterfeited, especially if you are enabling these guys to entertain the fantasy that it's real, then surely you are concerned enough to contact the authorities and see if it also concerns them.

I am not saying it's stolen though. I am just saying that I don't know where it came from and how!! 

I wanted to sure I'm on the safe side for doing that favor plus I'm not a coin collector so my knowledge in this field is very limited. 

received_559993277737396.jpeg

received_247084462551663.jpeg

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6 hours ago, Conder101 said:

It is almost certainly one of the tens or hundreds of thousands of fakes floating around.  You won't get in any trouble for posting a picture of a fake.  There are none of the known genuine coins that are stolen at the moment so there is no chance of it being a stolen specimen.  And if by some chance it is genuine, the authorities ar NOT going to come after it.  The 1804 dollars have a long history of being accepted as legal to own.

 

received_559993277737396.jpeg

received_247084462551663.jpeg

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It isn't a real 1804 dollar. Just a souvenir or conversation piece.

Edited by Just Bob

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2 hours ago, Adventureneverstops said:

Hi Bob, can you please explain why? 

Thx.

All 1804 dollars were struck either as presentation pieces, or specifically for collectors.The 15 known examples are all accounted for. While it is not strictly impossible for there to be a 16th specimen, the odds of it just showing up in some random collection are practically nil. Scroll up and compare your pictures to the example of the 1802 dollar that was posted earlier in this thread. The differences are many and obvious.

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15 hours ago, Adventureneverstops said:

can you please explain why?

The date font is wrong, the stars are wrong, the bust is too small, the border denticals are wrong, and it has raised blemishes in the fields.  And I haven't even looked at the rev yet.

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On 6/27/2013 at 12:43 PM, Deerefan8420 said:

 

No. This is not a real, or genuine, U.S. Minted coin. This coin was produced as a counterfeit to do what it has done already, to fool someone who is not knowledgable enough to know the difference. You're story is also quite difficult to buy, just like the coin. Any "coin expert" would know that this coin is a complete fake. I've only been collecting coins for a few years and although I'm not an expert, I feel quite confident in saying that it's not genuine.

Ditto, not a real dollar.

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15 hours ago, Old-school said:

Ditto, not a real dollar.

Will I didn't ask for your opinion on my story sherlock Holmes.( only on the coin). & the fact that you are NOT a coin expert just a new collector should not effect your nonsense  expertise on respecting and  believing people's stories. I think you need to learn about social communication skills and leave the coins to the real EXPERTS. 

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On 9/12/2018 at 3:45 PM, Adventureneverstops said:

Will I didn't ask for your opinion on my story sherlock Holmes.( only on the coin). & the fact that you are NOT a coin expert just a new collector should not effect your nonsense  expertise on respecting and  believing people's stories. I think you need to learn about social communication skills and leave the coins to the real EXPERTS. 

I guess I should apologize??? Farewell ("real Expert")

BTW, I've collected for over 40 yrs. New to this forum, not new to social communication or petty name calling.

Edited by Old-school
Grammar

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2 hours ago, Adventureneverstops said:

Will I didn't ask for your opinion on my story sherlock Holmes.( only on the coin). & the fact that you are NOT a coin expert just a new collector should not effect your nonsense  expertise on respecting and  believing people's stories. I think you need to learn about social communication skills and leave the coins to the real EXPERTS. 

Go back and look at Old-School's post. He was quoting a post from 2013, which was about a coin posted on 6/27/2013. All he did was agree that the original coin in this post was not real. He was not talking about you, your story, or your coin. It might be wise  to look a bit closer before attacking someone who did nothing wrong.

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44 minutes ago, Just Bob said:

He was quoting a post from 2013, which was about a coin posted on 6/27/2013.

Damn, I fell for old, outdated post again. Thank you @Just Bob for pointing that out (and your post)

Edited by Old-school
Grammar

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On ‎8‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 10:44 AM, Adventureneverstops said:

Hi Bob, can you please explain why? 

Thx.

Here is a very good reason.

dies.jpg

chinese_counterfeiters_coin_press-56a177465f9b58b7d0bf8f3a.jpg

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