dealer trying to rip me off?

[needshelp-migration]

those of you who have read my other post know that i am not a coin collector. i simply was given some coins by my father when he passed. while going through them i have learned a thing here and there tho. now to the point of my post, i took this morgan to a dealer today to see what they would offer and was amazed when he said $65...... again, im new so i could be wrong. and thats when i turn to the all knowing forum. what do you guys think?

(bad pics i know, sorry)

 

[needshelp-migration]

oh i forgot to include that vamworld leads me to think this is a 1900 o/o/cc vam-8B. i included photos of what i believe to be clash marks that make it the 8B and not the 8A

[wdrob]

 

I dont really think he was trying to rip you off. I think he was actually being somewhat generous. I am not sure but those die cracks magnified that much are common but if they are clearly visible to the unaided eye then I believe there are some around here that love die cracks.

 

The grey sheet on that particular year and mint mark is not very high and he would have to get it graded and if he did that he would already be losing money since that coin coming in above a MS63 I don't think will happen. MS63 of that coin is $69.60.

 

I may be missing something that a very knowledgeable member here can elaborate on but that Obverse is kinda mangled up in my opinion.

 

 

[cameron12x]

Off topic: Great photography. What camera, lens, and lighting setup do you use?

[jwc]

I agree pics were very nice.

[needshelp-migration]

this is a 1900 -O/O/CC and your saying he wasnt trying to rip me off? red book ms63 is $750......MS60 red book is $300. and those are for the non die clashed vam-8An coins

[needshelp-migration]

oh and about the pics... nothing fancy at all, desk lap with daylight bulb ( 60 watt ) my wifes samsung TL205 digital camera (like $150 when we got it 2 years ago). the trick is i put it on scene setting then sub setting as "text" then i hold a 10x eye glass up to the lens. cheap but it works sometimes

[needshelp-migration]

as for the die crack on the reverse, its plain as day and wraps around "united states" then theres 2 on the obverse, 1 from the liberty and the other through "19". theres 3 die clashes on the obverse, in front of the neck, below the hair and next to the cap. die clashes can be seen in pics #8 #10 and #11. these all match perfect to the 1900-O/O/CC vam 8B as can be seen at this link http://www.vamworld.com/1900-O+VAM-8B its so dead on it looks like they loaned me the same coin for my photos

[wdrob]

this is a 1900 -O/O/CC and your saying he wasnt trying to rip me off? red book ms63 is $750......MS60 red book is $300. and those are for the non die clashed vam-8An coins

 

 

First off.... I wrote that before you had mentioned anything about your O/O/CC and getting into all the VAMS. And second .....If you knew all this about these prices why would you come in here and ask if this guy was trying to rip you off?

 

I find it rather strange to be honest that you have a name of needshelp, now have a total of 12 posts, seems to me you know quite a bit about this hobby and coin collecting. Decked out with you high tech NASA stress crack camera gear and all.

 

What is the real story with you?

 

 

[needshelp-migration]

whats the name of this forum? something about grade right? thats why im here. everything i know about this coin ...its called google. i dont know why your jumping my case when all i did was point out what you falled to notice in the large blown up photos. 3rd from the bottom mostly where it can be clearly seen that its a o/cc. and i have yet to see a vam listed in red book. so vam aside its still a well known coin.

[needshelp-migration]

kinda bummed out tho, i thought i was clever with my eye glass to the wifes digital camera trick. leave it to nasa to beat me to it

[wdrob]

 

Liftedchevy?

 

I'm out.

 

 

[ldhair]

Did the dealer know what it was?

[Coindude]

I'm sure the dealer knew exactly what it was. Onthe other hand when you say book value of 300 - 350, well book value can be quite different from true value. Unless you have the coin graded with the attribute of which you claim then it won't be worth near that value. And depending on what book you're looking at it can be anywhere from 25 to 75% off. Maybe you were looking at the vamworld claimed value but I seriously doubt the listed values are anywhere near true value. Every specialty site I've ever seen claims inflated.vslues of their specialty type of coin. Compound all that with the fact the shop has overhead and must make a profit and $65 probably isn't that far off. If he was trying to rip you off he would have offered you $20.

[needshelp-migration]

actually, the 300-750 was the red book that the dealer uses and it matches with pcgs coin facts prices as well

[needshelp-migration]

[BillJones]

Most collectors do not care about the VAM number. They only know that the piece is a 1900 O over CC silver dollar, which was made from recycled dies. The Carson City mint closed in 1893, and there were a number of reverse dies that had been made for it. Rather than tossing them, the Philadelphia mint personnel partially effaced the "CC" mint mark and punched an "O" over it. It is an interesting variety. The die cracks do not matter; it is the redone mint mark that gives this piece value.

 

The coin appears to grade in the MS-61 to 63. It is Mint State, but there are a lot of marks on Ms. Liberty's cheek, which lowers the grade. The current Gray Sheet (wholesale) bid on this piece is $650 in MS-63. In MS-60 the price is $250.If the coin has been certified, you might expect to get 10% in back of bid. If the piece has not been certified by NGC or PCGS you can expect to get less, more like $150 to $200. The dealer will have to spend the money to get it certified (certification costs + shipping) plus he needs to cover himself if the coin comes back in a lower grade. This why it is better to sell certified coins than raw coins. You stand a much better chance of getting a higher price.

 

If the coin came back in MS-63, it would be a "weak" MS-63 IMO. An MS-61 or 62 grade would be more accurate. It is decidedly better than MS-60, but the premium for the next two grading points is not that high.

 

Edited to add:

 

1. The 1900-O over CC dollar is a not a coin that every Morgan dollar collector thinks he needs for his set. Not all dealers can get top dollar for this coin. Therefore you can't expect every dealer to pay top dollar for it.

 

2. It does not make sense to have EVERY coin certified. Some are simply not worth the grading fees. Generally a coin has be worth at least $200 to make it worth while. That is the low end number. This 1900-O over CC dollar is worth the grading fee.

 

[johnny9434]

this is a very odd read.

[wdrob]

this is a very odd read.

 

 

What? You didn't learn something here?

[Coindude]

By the way the red book is about the worst place you can go to get a value on your coins.

[BillJones]

By the way the red book is about the worst place you can go to get a value on your coins.

 

I don't know ...

 

There is always the Black Book and Shop at Home ...

[jwc]

I have a local dealer that I sell some coins to on occasion. Last week he looked at 4 large cents for me and offered $45, 40,30,and 20 for. I told him I would consider his offer and let him know. A couple days later there was a small coin show in town. I showed the same coins to about 6 dealers. Their offers were 15 to 20 each. Moral of the story is to find a fair and honest guy to deal with. Jerry

[mtnstyne]

Looks like high end of 63, possibly 62.

[FishyOne]

dealer trying to rip me off?

 

I don't think so but there's not enough information to state conclusively one way or the other.

 

It does look like a pretty nice Morgan dollar though.

[needshelp-migration]

thanks for all the input guys, learned a few things ill have to keep in mind. selling these things has turned out to be a lot more work then i thought it would be. a little off topic but is ebay a good place to sell a bulk collection of coins? or would i be better off contacting an auction house or something? going through all these is taking to much of my time so im thinking ill just sale as much as i can in 1 last sale and move on but dont want to get ripped off...

[Coindude]

There are a few guys here that I would recommend contacting as I consider them very fair. Give JamesEarly_US a shot. I've dealt with him on this sort of thing and I'd bet he'd treat you well.

[needshelp-migration]

Thanks i appreciate the help

[Dudley the 1st]

NIce looking coin. First let me say, It's a good thing that you brought this up for discussion before making a decision to sell off any part of your inherited collection since your new to this fraternity. I have been a collector myself for the better part of 50 years and by no means do I consider myself as being an expert on no individual series or issue. Based upon what I see, I think a grade of 63 is not out of a possibility and it appears it is an OMM. There may be other more astute Morgan Collectors here that may offer you some more definitive information about this particular coin. I'll reserve comment as to whether or not the Dealer was trying to " rip you off" . There is no substitute for being able to inspect any coin- in hand.

 

I'm anxious to hear some other opinions.

[needshelp-migration]

I actually had to google OMM before replying to you Dudley im thinking its a solid 63. (again, im not a collector so i could be wishing). does this site hace a photo grade area like pcgs has? i was looking at theirs and they had 66 and higher coins with all kinds of markings, some real deep. mine only has real light marks other then 2 or 3 small ones. why is this? is their photo grade thing just a crappy guide?

[needshelp-migration]

update- i just got back from taking it to 2 dealers in the next town over (kansas city). the 1st graded it ms64 and offered 440 and the 2nd offered 375 saying it was a toss between ms63 and ms64. NEVER going to the local dealer again. im so glad i didnt take his offer. makes me wonder how many other coins he ripped me off on....