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Buyer refuses to honor deal & extorts me ~ Am I too lenient?

Started by coinman1794,

26 posts in this topic

coinman1794

coinman1794

Posted
Posted

Buyer refuses to honor deal & extorts me ~ Am I too lenient? Here is the exact timeline of communications; names have been deleted to protect the guilty.

 

Narator in red, buyer in bold, and me in regular font.

 

(December 8)

 

Buyer sees a nice 1965 10C on ebay and contacts me with an offer:

 

Would you take $100.00.

 

There is another on e-bay less, same grade. Let me know so we can coordinate a BIN.

 

Thanks

 

Thank you for the email. There is another 1965 NGC-68FT on ebay, but it does not have quality pictures. However, from what little information I can glean from the small, fuzzy images, it is not comparable to this early die state piece, which is much more desirable than the late die state coins, which teletrade has recorded selling in the $110 range.

 

Thanks for your quick response, Understood,

 

Putting all aside, what is the lowest BIN option you can do for me, total including shipping.

 

Thanks

You are welcome! Our best price on this piece would be $135 delivered. We are going to be listing a very attractive, frosty example in the next few days, and our best price on it would be $112 delivered.

 

Buyer decided not to wait for me to change the price to $135, and purchased the coin through ebay at $149 and said:

 

(December 9)

 

As agreed, please adjust invoice total to $135.00 (total including shipping)as agreed in our communications.

 

Let me know when you list the other as we dicussed. If you can send me pictures, I can decide on the purchase, as you can ship both at the same time.

 

Thanks

We have now listed the second 1965 NGC-68FT SMS at $110. This coin is also an exceptional piece. If you enter our ebay store and search for 1965, it will come up. I have adjusted the listing to accept an offer of $96 for it, to equal $245 and make up for the overage on the coin you already purchased. I can invoice you for both together when you buy it. Thank you very much for the interest!

 

(December 10)

 

Buyer purchases second dime at $96, as agreed, and the next day, says:

 

(December 11)

Please update total invoice due as it does not show correct due. It shows $149.00 not the $135.00 as agreed.

We agreed on $245 for the pair. Because you purchased the first coin at $149 before we could change the price to $135, we lowered the second coin from $110 to $96 to make up the difference, as per my emails to you. There is no way to change the invoice amount for the coin without canceling the transactions and re-buying them at $135 and $110.

For reference, here is a copy of the email we sent to you on December 9th:

 

"We have now listed the second 1965 NGC-68FT SMS at $110. This coin is also an exceptional piece. If you enter our ebay store and search for 1965, it will come up. I have adjusted the listing to accept an offer of $96 for it, to equal $245 and make up for the overage on the coin you already purchased. I can invoice you for both together when you buy it. Thank you very much for the interest!"

 

NO RESPONSE

 

(December 13)

Please let us know what you would like to do. If there was a misunderstanding of the prices being paid, $135 and $110, and you no longer wish to purchase the coins, we are happy to void the transactions. However, if you are purchasing, we do need to collect $135 and $110, or $245 for the pair, as per our original communications before the sale. Have a good afternoon.

 

NO RESPONSE

 

(December 14th)

 

Again, if there was a misunderstanding, we can work with you to resolve the problem. Please let us know how you wish to proceed.

 

We tried to send you an invoice at $135, but there is no way to change the price through ebay. Therefore we allowed you to take $14 off our bottom line price on the second coin, in order to make up the difference.

 

NO RESPONSE

 

After remaining unresponsive for 5 days, buyer starts threatening me:

 

(December 16)

Yes, I agreed to all and purchased as defined. This was NOT the asgreement, as you are totaling after the agreement. We agreed on the $135.00 and you agreed on the $96. Checking with pay pal, you can adjust the total. I wil re send the $135. request on the item as noted. Each one has to be done by itself and not as a tottal. Once this is corrected the total will be correct.

 

Once this is done, I will pay!

 

Please correct selling price to $135.00 and $96.00 so invoice relects same = $231.00.

 

If this does not work, I can open a case so Pay Pal can correct all invoicing on there end.

#1, Buyer is selectively choosing which parts of the agreement to honor, and threatening me if I don’t comply. #2 Buyer has entered into two agreements at $149 and $96, and has no case against me. #3 Buyer does not understand the difference between a paypal invoice and ebay listing prices (I paid ebay fees on $149, not $135). Whatever his complaint would be, it would be through ebay, not paypal. #4, I did not have his email address to send him a paypal invoice at the lower price until he finally responded on the 16th, and ebay included his paypal address at the bottom, for the first time.

 

I decided a while ago to give him the coins at the lower price (should he actually get back to me), because that is just the way I am, and frankly, in not worried about $14. However, a simple misunderstanding has turned into simple extortion. I would have liked to include the 4 points above in my email to him, but he has obviously ignored all of my previous messages, and it would have been another total waste of time. Therefore, I called his bluff:

 

We are happy to give you the coins at $231. This was a simple misunderstanding, but I had no way of knowing until you responded. I always try to resolve these matters in favor of my customers. We will send you an invoice reflecting the $231.00 today.

 

Paypal invoice sent.

 

Am I being too lenient? Do I need to open a case with ebay. He is in direct violation of ebay rules by threatening me with a case if I don’t change the prices.

 

 

 

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newprepper

newprepper

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Posted

I would have said the coin was no longer available, after 4 days of bs I would have put in a case to cancel the agreement. I suspect after the sale you will have problems also. What is sellers feedback like/

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TomB

TomB

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I know you want to sell the coins, but enough is enough. I would have moved to cancel the transactions. Perhaps this would work out well for you. Good luck.

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coinman1794

coinman1794

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I know you want to sell the coins, but enough is enough. I would have moved to cancel the transactions. Perhaps this would work out well for you. Good luck.

 

I do not care if they sell or not. I do care that I am being abused, and over $14, to boot!

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coinman1794

coinman1794

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Buyer refuses to honor deal & extorts me ~ Am I too lenient? Here is the exact timeline of communications; names have been deleted to protect the guilty.

 

Narator in red, buyer in bold, and me in regular font.

 

(December 8)

 

Buyer sees a nice 1965 10C on ebay and contacts me with an offer:

 

Would you take $100.00.

 

There is another on e-bay less, same grade. Let me know so we can coordinate a BIN.

 

Thanks

 

Thank you for the email. There is another 1965 NGC-68FT on ebay, but it does not have quality pictures. However, from what little information I can glean from the small, fuzzy images, it is not comparable to this early die state piece, which is much more desirable than the late die state coins, which teletrade has recorded selling in the $110 range.

 

Thanks for your quick response, Understood,

 

Putting all aside, what is the lowest BIN option you can do for me, total including shipping.

 

Thanks

You are welcome! Our best price on this piece would be $135 delivered. We are going to be listing a very attractive, frosty example in the next few days, and our best price on it would be $112 delivered.

 

Buyer decided not to wait for me to change the price to $135, and purchased the coin through ebay at $149 and said:

 

(December 9)

 

As agreed, please adjust invoice total to $135.00 (total including shipping)as agreed in our communications.

 

Let me know when you list the other as we dicussed. If you can send me pictures, I can decide on the purchase, as you can ship both at the same time.

 

Thanks

We have now listed the second 1965 NGC-68FT SMS at $110. This coin is also an exceptional piece. If you enter our ebay store and search for 1965, it will come up. I have adjusted the listing to accept an offer of $96 for it, to equal $245 and make up for the overage on the coin you already purchased. I can invoice you for both together when you buy it. Thank you very much for the interest!

 

(December 10)

 

Buyer purchases second dime at $96, as agreed, and the next day, says:

 

(December 11)

Please update total invoice due as it does not show correct due. It shows $149.00 not the $135.00 as agreed.

We agreed on $245 for the pair. Because you purchased the first coin at $149 before we could change the price to $135, we lowered the second coin from $110 to $96 to make up the difference, as per my emails to you. There is no way to change the invoice amount for the coin without canceling the transactions and re-buying them at $135 and $110.

For reference, here is a copy of the email we sent to you on December 9th:

 

"We have now listed the second 1965 NGC-68FT SMS at $110. This coin is also an exceptional piece. If you enter our ebay store and search for 1965, it will come up. I have adjusted the listing to accept an offer of $96 for it, to equal $245 and make up for the overage on the coin you already purchased. I can invoice you for both together when you buy it. Thank you very much for the interest!"

 

NO RESPONSE

 

(December 13)

Please let us know what you would like to do. If there was a misunderstanding of the prices being paid, $135 and $110, and you no longer wish to purchase the coins, we are happy to void the transactions. However, if you are purchasing, we do need to collect $135 and $110, or $245 for the pair, as per our original communications before the sale. Have a good afternoon.

 

NO RESPONSE

 

(December 14th)

 

Again, if there was a misunderstanding, we can work with you to resolve the problem. Please let us know how you wish to proceed.

 

We tried to send you an invoice at $135, but there is no way to change the price through ebay. Therefore we allowed you to take $14 off our bottom line price on the second coin, in order to make up the difference.

 

NO RESPONSE

 

After remaining unresponsive for 5 days, buyer starts threatening me:

 

(December 16)

Yes, I agreed to all and purchased as defined. This was NOT the asgreement, as you are totaling after the agreement. We agreed on the $135.00 and you agreed on the $96. Checking with pay pal, you can adjust the total. I wil re send the $135. request on the item as noted. Each one has to be done by itself and not as a tottal. Once this is corrected the total will be correct.

 

Once this is done, I will pay!

 

Please correct selling price to $135.00 and $96.00 so invoice relects same = $231.00.

 

If this does not work, I can open a case so Pay Pal can correct all invoicing on there end.

#1, Buyer is selectively choosing which parts of the agreement to honor, and threatening me if I don’t comply. #2 Buyer has entered into two agreements at $149 and $96, and has no case against me. #3 Buyer does not understand the difference between a paypal invoice and ebay listing prices (I paid ebay fees on $149, not $135). Whatever his complaint would be, it would be through ebay, not paypal. #4, I did not have his email address to send him a paypal invoice at the lower price until he finally responded on the 16th, and ebay included his paypal address at the bottom, for the first time.

 

I decided a while ago to give him the coins at the lower price (should he actually get back to me), because that is just the way I am, and frankly, in not worried about $14. However, a simple misunderstanding has turned into simple extortion. I would have liked to include the 4 points above in my email to him, but he has obviously ignored all of my previous messages, and it would have been another total waste of time. Therefore, I called his bluff:

 

We are happy to give you the coins at $231. This was a simple misunderstanding, but I had no way of knowing until you responded. I always try to resolve these matters in favor of my customers. We will send you an invoice reflecting the $231.00 today.

 

Paypal invoice sent.

 

Am I being too lenient? Do I need to open a case with ebay. He is in direct violation of ebay rules by threatening me with a case if I don’t change the prices.

 

 

 

UPDATE: 12/16, 5:20PM

 

Thanks, sorry for the confusion. Happy to do business with you and your company.

 

Is he going to pay me???

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lehigh96

lehigh96

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I think you should have asked him to cancel both transactions with the promise that you would relist them together as one lot with a price of $231. If he agreed and you wanted to be nice, relist the coins as promised and let him buy them. If he agreed and you wanted to be evil, relist the coins right after you blocked him as a bidder. :devil:

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coinman_23885

coinman_23885

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He did not give me that option, he threatened me with action if I dont send an updated invoice. And when I suggested canceling the transactions before, he did not repond.

 

 

I think you made a mistake. First of all, I would never have adjusted the sales numbers the way you did because of the potential that some manipulative insufficiently_thoughtful_person would use it against me later. Second of all, I think you were too lenient to accept $231, but at this point, you have already committed to that (unless I am misreading this).

 

I think you should have sent him a request to cancel the sale. If he did not respond, which seems possible given his refusal to respond to your other messages, eBay will automatically allow you to close the case and cancel the transaction after seven days. After that time he would be ineligible to purchase it. Alternatively, I would have turned the table on him and opened an unpaid item case against him. He would have paid or agreed to cancel the sale. There is a small chance, however, that he would have left you negative feedback, but I think (1) eBay would have removed it if you demonstrated what was going on and (2) he probably would have left retaliatory feedback if you didn't give into him anyway. To me, it would be worth a potential negative rating as a matter of principle. I hope you'll post his eBay ID/moniker.

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coinman_23885

coinman_23885

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I think you should have asked him to cancel both transactions with the promise that you would relist them together as one lot with a price of $231. If he agreed and you wanted to be nice, relist the coins as promised and let him buy them. If he agreed and you wanted to be evil, relist the coins right after you blocked him as a bidder. :devil:

 

:roflmao:lol

 

Unfortunately, he could have a second eBay account or buy them through a friend.

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gmarguli

gmarguli

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He has perfect feedback of about 100.

 

Can you show me a single buyer in the entire eBay universe that does NOT have 100% positive feedback?

 

 

He did not give me that option, he threatened me with action if I dont send an updated invoice. And when I suggested canceling the transactions before, he did not repond.

 

They all threaten nowadays. eBay gives them 100% of the power and automatically views the seller as a scumbag. You have two choices:

 

1) You can cave to the buyer. It's only a few dollars. Don't expect them to be a repeat customer. They'll move on to the next sucker seller.

 

2) You can point out the error and cancel the transaction. You'll probably get a negative.

 

Personally, I'd take the negatives. When I view sellers feedback, I assume 75% of the negs are fake.

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coinman1794

coinman1794

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He did not give me that option, he threatened me with action if I dont send an updated invoice. And when I suggested canceling the transactions before, he did not repond.

 

 

I think you made a mistake. First of all, I would never have adjusted the sales numbers the way you did because of the potential that some manipulative insufficiently_thoughtful_person would use it against me later. Second of all, I think you were too lenient to accept $231, but at this point, you have already committed to that (unless I am misreading this).

 

I think you should have sent him a request to cancel the sale. If he did not respond, which seems possible given his refusal to respond to your other messages, eBay will automatically allow you to close the case and cancel the transaction after seven days. After that time he would be ineligible to purchase it. Alternatively, I would have turned the table on him and opened an unpaid item case against him. He would have paid or agreed to cancel the sale. There is a small chance, however, that he would have left you negative feedback, but I think (1) eBay would have removed it if you demonstrated what was going on and (2) he probably would have left retaliatory feedback if you didn't give into him anyway. To me, it would be worth a potential negative rating as a matter of principle. I hope you'll post his eBay ID/moniker.

 

There is no ebay rule that says an ebay transaction has to be paid through ebay checkout, so sending a hand maid paypal invoice for an ebay transaction is perfectly legit.

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coinman_23885

coinman_23885

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He did not give me that option, he threatened me with action if I dont send an updated invoice. And when I suggested canceling the transactions before, he did not repond.

 

 

I think you made a mistake. First of all, I would never have adjusted the sales numbers the way you did because of the potential that some manipulative insufficiently_thoughtful_person would use it against me later. Second of all, I think you were too lenient to accept $231, but at this point, you have already committed to that (unless I am misreading this).

 

I think you should have sent him a request to cancel the sale. If he did not respond, which seems possible given his refusal to respond to your other messages, eBay will automatically allow you to close the case and cancel the transaction after seven days. After that time he would be ineligible to purchase it. Alternatively, I would have turned the table on him and opened an unpaid item case against him. He would have paid or agreed to cancel the sale. There is a small chance, however, that he would have left you negative feedback, but I think (1) eBay would have removed it if you demonstrated what was going on and (2) he probably would have left retaliatory feedback if you didn't give into him anyway. To me, it would be worth a potential negative rating as a matter of principle. I hope you'll post his eBay ID/moniker.

 

There is no ebay rule that says an ebay transaction has to be paid through ebay checkout, so sending a hand maid paypal invoice for an ebay transaction is perfectly legit.

 

I didn't say that you did anything wrong. I just said that I would have done things differently, and I wouldn't have given in to the buyer.

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coinman1794

coinman1794

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Well, this matter has been resolved with a positive outcome!

 

On Dec. 18th, we issued an ultimatum:

 

"...we have been unable to find a way to alter the original sale prices of the items, either through ebay or paypal. The only solution, at this point, is to pay the original invoice at $245, and we will issue a prompt paypal refund of $14. Both orders are past due and we need to either complete them or cancel the listings, within the next 24 hours."

 

He paid (the reduced rate) after about 30 hours on the morning of December 20th, literally within minutes of us canceling the listings, saying only:

 

"Sounds like a plan. Will do all today."

 

I gave him some extra time, fought his ignorance with careful words, tried to be professional and brush off the insults, and placed this transaction on the back burner, as the ball was in his court. Despite his erratic behavior and him ripping me off over $14, I realized that it had only been about 10 days, and that I have had much worse things happen on ebay over the years, including buyers who took 20 days to pay. Patience is a virtue! This approach does not suit many sellers, and will not work in all situations, but this time, it paid off.

 

Today (12/26) he left two positive feedback comments!

 

Good seller, great communications, fast service.

Good seller, great communications, fast service.

 

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gmarguli

gmarguli

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Today (12/26) he left two positive feedback comments!

 

Good seller, great communications, fast service.

Good seller, great communications, fast service.

 

And probably one star for every DSR. (shrug)

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Mary B

Mary B

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Just had something on ebay myself. Listed 2 PCGS Brilliant Uncirculated American Silver Eagles. Made sure the picture of the reverse showed a deep scratch in one of the holders. Didn't state in the text that it was scratched because the picture clearly showed it.

 

Buyer gets the pair for $79.95 then a week later he wants $15 off because the holder is "cracked" (his words, it is a scratch). I tell him no, the pictures show the scratch and I am not taking a loss on a 1 ounce silver round. Pictures are the main part of the description and it was as described. I didn't sell 2 scratch free holders that happen to hold a 1 ounce silver coin... I sold these as bullion because that is all they are really worth.

 

He escalates to ebay a month later and ebay tells him to return them. I am fed up with ebays side with the buyers even if the seller is right. In between the high fees and having to bend over backwards to the buyers it just isn't worth the hassle anymore. He hasn't shipped them back yet but if he does I am video taping opening the box and inspecting the holders for tampering.

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coinman1794

coinman1794

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Today (12/26) he left two positive feedback comments!

 

Good seller, great communications, fast service.

Good seller, great communications, fast service.

 

And probably one star for every DSR. (shrug)

 

As far as I can tell, he gave me all fives! :cool:

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