David W. Lange of NGC mentioned in CNN Olympics article

[Zoins]

I had to do a double take when I saw NGC mentioned in a CNN article on the Olympics. It's cool to see NGC in the popular press. (thumbs u

 

Historically, the practice of biting into metal seems to have its roots in money counterfeiting. Money handlers would bite down on coins to test their authenticity, said David W. Lange of Numismatic Guaranty Corporation. Gold is a relatively soft metal and would show wear when distressed.

[Conder101]

Gold WILL show a tooth impression if you bite down hard enough, but but you have to bite hard enough to court a broken tooth. The bite test was really to check for gold plated lead. Lead is very soft and will take a tooth impression very easily (if it is pure lead it will take a fingernail impression). The bite test is to do a fairly gentle bite and if tooth impressions are left then the piece is fake. You aren't biting to see if it is real, you're biting to see if it is fake.

 

And the biting of the gold medals is not something I remember from previous Olympics just this one.

[L1ncolnF4n]

Gold WILL show a tooth impression if you bite down hard enough, but but you have to bite hard enough to court a broken tooth. The bite test was really to check for gold plated lead. Lead is very soft and will take a tooth impression very easily (if it is pure lead it will take a fingernail impression). The bite test is to do a fairly gentle bite and if tooth impressions are left then the piece is fake. You aren't biting to see if it is real, you're biting to see if it is fake.

 

And the biting of the gold medals is not something I remember from previous Olympics just this one.

 

The medal biting (I believe, but correct me if I'm wrong) was started by Phelps. I believe one of my colleagues (who was at the games and won a bronze) said that he convinced the swimmers to start doing it and then it caught on.

[cpm9ball]

Your title was a bit disappointing. I was expecting to see David in the Synchronized Grading competition.

 

Chris

[Zoins]

Gold WILL show a tooth impression if you bite down hard enough, but but you have to bite hard enough to court a broken tooth. The bite test was really to check for gold plated lead. Lead is very soft and will take a tooth impression very easily (if it is pure lead it will take a fingernail impression). The bite test is to do a fairly gentle bite and if tooth impressions are left then the piece is fake. You aren't biting to see if it is real, you're biting to see if it is fake.

 

And the biting of the gold medals is not something I remember from previous Olympics just this one.

 

The medal biting (I believe, but correct me if I'm wrong) was started by Phelps. I believe one of my colleagues (who was at the games and won a bronze) said that he convinced the swimmers to start doing it and then it caught on.

 

Good to know Conder101 and L1ncolnF4n!

[mkman123]

hahahah,

[Zoins]

By the way, I recently learned Olympic "gold" medals are really gold-plated silver, though early on there were solid gold. It might be interesting if a winner bit down on his or her gold medal and then exclaimed that it wasn't gold

 

It would be cool if recipients were given a choice between gold-plated and solid gold.

[mtnstyne]

By the way, I recently learned Olympic "gold" medals are really gold-plated silver, though early on there were solid gold. It might be interesting if a winner bit down on his or her gold medal and then exclaimed that it wasn't gold

 

It would be cool if recipients were given a choice between gold-plated and solid gold.

 

I read that the actual precious metal value of the gold medal is only about $650.

 

CoinWeek Article

[Conder101]

It would be cool if recipients were given a choice between gold-plated and solid gold.

Not really. Say you are a gold medal athlete and you are given that choice. You can have the nearly 3 1/3 inch diameter gold plated silver medal, or a solid gold medal about the size of a 1/10 oz gold eagle. (Both would have about the same amount of gold.) Just think of your self standing on the podium with the bronze and silver medal winners and their 3 1/3 inch medals and they put the ribbon around your neck with a medal the size of a Lincoln cent.

[RWB]

Can't think of a better expert to quote than David W. Lange!!

[Nutmeg Coin]

It is always good to see him at the shows.

 

Does anyone know if NGC graded any olympic medals?

[Zoins]

It would be cool if recipients were given a choice between gold-plated and solid gold.

Not really. Say you are a gold medal athlete and you are given that choice. You can have the nearly 3 1/3 inch diameter gold plated silver medal, or a solid gold medal about the size of a 1/10 oz gold eagle. (Both would have about the same amount of gold.) Just think of your self standing on the podium with the bronze and silver medal winners and their 3 1/3 inch medals and they put the ribbon around your neck with a medal the size of a Lincoln cent.

 

My thinking is that the solid gold medals would be the same size but that the athletes would need to pay for the optional upgrade. I didn't consider making one out of the same value of gold because the size would make it would look silly as you suggest.

[Conder101]

OK, you can pay for the "upgrade". Cost is $45,000. After all that training and effort you just forfeit your $25,000 prize and pay them an additional $20,000 and you can have your medal.

 

I think I would still stick to receiving the gold plated one and the $25,000 prize money.

[Old Pueblo]

OK, you can pay for the "upgrade". Cost is $45,000. After all that training and effort you just forfeit your $25,000 prize and pay them an additional $20,000 and you can have your medal.

 

I think I would still stick to receiving the gold plated one and the $25,000 prize money.

Unless you're one of the Olympic Gazillionaires, then it might make a nice solid gold presentation in the trophy case. For the pending Gazillionaires, take the prize money.

 

OP

[Zoins]

OK, you can pay for the "upgrade". Cost is $45,000. After all that training and effort you just forfeit your $25,000 prize and pay them an additional $20,000 and you can have your medal.

 

I think I would still stick to receiving the gold plated one and the $25,000 prize money.

Unless you're one of the Olympic Gazillionaires, then it might make a nice solid gold presentation in the trophy case. For the pending Gazillionaires, take the prize money.

 

OP

 

Conder, sports and the Olympics are big money. Think about the athletes that participate now and what happens once they win gold. Many of the athletes competing now can easily afford the upgrade even before they get to the games as OP mentions. Also, many athletes that win gold for the first time end up having sponsors lined up that would provide more than enough sponsorship and may be happy to fund an upgrade directly. For many athletes, a solid gold medal may be more meaningful than the extra money in their account.

 

I don't think the upgrade fee would be an issue for many, but I think having two classes of medals may make some gold medals more equal than others which may not be sportsman-like or in the spirit of the Olympics. For more equality, it may be better to find a funding mechanism to allow all gold medal athletes to receive solid gold rather than gold-plated medals, for example like the Nobel Prize.

[L1ncolnF4n]

OK, you can pay for the "upgrade". Cost is $45,000. After all that training and effort you just forfeit your $25,000 prize and pay them an additional $20,000 and you can have your medal.

 

I think I would still stick to receiving the gold plated one and the $25,000 prize money.

 

You forgot about the fact that medalists owe the IRS nearly half of that. There's about $11k in taxes on the gold medal from a Yahoo! article I read last week.

[Zoins]

OK, you can pay for the "upgrade". Cost is $45,000. After all that training and effort you just forfeit your $25,000 prize and pay them an additional $20,000 and you can have your medal.

 

I think I would still stick to receiving the gold plated one and the $25,000 prize money.

 

You forgot about the fact that medalists owe the IRS nearly half of that. There's about $11k in taxes on the gold medal from a Yahoo! article I read last week.

 

Those numbers are too high.

 

Taxes on $25,000 in income comes out to a maximum of $8,750 at 35%, and that's only if you make over $379,150 in taxable income.

 

If you make $0, taxes on $25,000 would be $3,325.

[L1ncolnF4n]

OK, you can pay for the "upgrade". Cost is $45,000. After all that training and effort you just forfeit your $25,000 prize and pay them an additional $20,000 and you can have your medal.

 

I think I would still stick to receiving the gold plated one and the $25,000 prize money.

 

You forgot about the fact that medalists owe the IRS nearly half of that. There's about $11k in taxes on the gold medal from a Yahoo! article I read last week.

 

Those numbers are too high.

 

Taxes on $25,000 in income comes out to a maximum of $8,750 at 35%, and that's only if you make over $379,150 in taxable income.

 

If you make $0, taxes on $25,000 would be $3,325.

 

My bad must have been thinking about something else. It's not regular income from my understanding: http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/olympics-fourth-place-medal/winning-gold-medal-brings-9-000-tax-bill-171555961--oly.html

[Zoins]

OK, you can pay for the "upgrade". Cost is $45,000. After all that training and effort you just forfeit your $25,000 prize and pay them an additional $20,000 and you can have your medal.

 

I think I would still stick to receiving the gold plated one and the $25,000 prize money.

 

You forgot about the fact that medalists owe the IRS nearly half of that. There's about $11k in taxes on the gold medal from a Yahoo! article I read last week.

 

Those numbers are too high.

 

Taxes on $25,000 in income comes out to a maximum of $8,750 at 35%, and that's only if you make over $379,150 in taxable income.

 

If you make $0, taxes on $25,000 would be $3,325.

 

My bad must have been thinking about something else. It's not regular income from my understanding: http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/olympics-fourth-place-medal/winning-gold-medal-brings-9-000-tax-bill-171555961--oly.html

 

If it's not regular income, what do you think it is?

 

The $8,986 they calculate for the $25,000 award comes out to a tax rate of 36%. I'm guessing they are using 36% as the highest marginal tax rate for sensationalism. It makes for a more exciting article than saying taxes are $8,986 for those making more than $379,150 in income.

[mtnstyne]

It's taxed at regular income. Most of the media outlets don't do any research on the topic so they only repeat the same tag line they heard by the water cooler.

 

Michael Phelps probably has to pay the higher rate though...

[L1ncolnF4n]

It's taxed at regular income. Most of the media outlets don't do any research on the topic so they only repeat the same tag line they heard by the water cooler.

 

Michael Phelps probably has to pay the higher rate though...

 

Perhaps the number I heard at $11k was including state income taxes?

[Zoins]

It's taxed at regular income. Most of the media outlets don't do any research on the topic so they only repeat the same tag line they heard by the water cooler.

 

Michael Phelps probably has to pay the higher rate though...

 

Perhaps the number I heard at $11k was including state income taxes?

 

That sounds about right for the maximum tax liability, if the athlete is already making over $388,350 (adjusted for 2012) and living in a progressive income tax state with a state income tax bracket around 10%, such as CA, HI, OR, NJ, etc. There's no state income tax in several states (AK, FL, NV, SD, TX, WA, and WY) with others in between.

 

For example, Kobe Bryant lives in CA and makes $24,806,250 a year so he would pay around $11k in taxes for his Olympics winnings. I don't think many people would feel bad about Kobe's $11k tax liability, but this isn't the story the media outlets necessarily want.

[Conder101]

If it is treated as regular income the people that wrote the article when they figured the taxes probably also figured in self employment tax and other withholding. That can easily make the rate reach around 29% even at the lower rates. The SE tax accounts for 15% by itself.

[Zoins]

The study was done by Americans for Tax Reform and analyzed by K. Sean Packard, CPA who has filed tax returns for Olympic gold medal winners and had them audited.

 

The $8,986 tax liability for gold medal winners was arrived at by taxing the value of the medal (estimated at $236) and putting all Olympic gold medal winners in the 35% tax bracket where they would need to be have a 2012 income of more than $388,350.

 

The study is in error on both counts:

 

(1) The value of the medal isn't taxed

(2) Not all Olympic gold medal winners will have a 2012 income of over $388,350

 

However, the study is correct in that it did not add self-employment taxes:

 

ATR is correct in that the USOC medal bonuses are not subject to self-employment taxes. These payments are awards given unilaterally and not the result of a contract or agreement between the athlete and the USOC.

 

For athletes making over $388,350 in 2012, $8,750 in taxes on the additional $25,000 seems reasonable.

[newprepper]

I wouldn't mind having an 11,000 dollar tax liability. truth be known, I wish I paid millions of dollars in taxes

[L1ncolnF4n]

I wouldn't mind having an 11,000 dollar tax liability. truth be known, I wish I paid millions of dollars in taxes

 

Amen to that!