Altered colored Indian Head Cents 0

[Ron Smith]

My passion is Indian Head pennies but I am getting gun shy of buying any anymore especially the uncirculated ones. Almost all of them I send in for grading come back altered colors. I have seen some obviously colored coins out there on ebay, bright orange and very unnatural looking but also many that look so good that you could set them side by side with a graded one and never tell the difference. First of all I have looked everywhere at how this coloring is done and how they do this. I can't find a thing. I mean these coins have high luster and beautiful natural color, Many have toning. What do I look for to avoid buying these coins. I have looked at literally thousands of graded ones on Heritage Auctions to try to pin down the difference without success, Sometimes I almost feel that if the coin looks too good NGC won't grade it just because they think that it might be altered colors but don't know for sure. Wouldn't there be some way to test these coins for a foreign substance on them to tell if they had really been tampered with. Very frustrated. Thanks.

[Scott_Schechter]

We recognize this as a challenging area for many collectors, especially given that experience is the best way to judge the originality of color on Indian Cents. This is made doubly challenging because early dates, middle dates and later dates naturally have different appearances. And some dates, like the 1883, have very distinct color, essentially unique to that date.

 

Since the grading of Indian Cents requires that NGC designate a color – red, red brown or brown – we indentify coins as Altered Color when they have undergone some treatment to appear redder than they would otherwise be. The color of the coin itself is the most effective means to identify this treatment, but luster may be impaired as well. The hues of altered coins are readily identifiably to NGC graders and usually just jump out as being off-color.

 

The best thing to do is to look as many coins in person as you can. Often a copper coin of artificial color will be described as being “too orange” or “too pink,” but of course these are relative terms that presume knowledge of the natural color of a coinage issue. Looking at high-grade red coins in NGC holders will show you good color.

 

[Madisonpigeon]

NGC Does not in my opinion have the worth to charge anyone for grading without assigning a grade. If you send a coin to ICG at least they will place a grade on your coin. Example: MS66 altered color. NGC uncirculated altered color! No GRADE! they suck

[Jeffrey W. Ebner]

I just purchased some very expensive half cent and Indian Head pennies in exceptional condition from a very reptile coin auction site.   After my purchase it was recommend to me to get them graded to add value to coins.  The coin dealer did not inform me that if there was altered color or cleaning that they would not grade the coin beyond a AU....which there were obviously in MS condition very rare for a 1819, 1828 and 1877 Penny....Also, I spent a lot of hard earned money getting them graded and making my purchase only to find out they really were not going to be graded because the highest grade a cleaned or altered Color Coin can be assigned is AU....Changeing the color does not remove or ware a coin down....I wish the expert at the coin store would have told me not to get them graded and just add it up to getting life and coin experience.  Does any expert have any advice of where to go from here or where I might sell them to recoup my purchase price of the coins.  Also, I am contacting the auction site to inform of there misleading representation of the coins and see if it's possible for a refund.....Best Regards,   JWE

 

 

 

Edited July 22, 2021 by Jeffrey W. Ebner

[kenlee47]

Learn how to spell and grade coins!

 

[Morpheus1967]

On 8/15/2021 at 7:13 PM, kenlee47 said:

Learn how to spell and grade coins!

 

Thanks for the helpful post.  What would the forum ever do without your amazing contributions?  

[JT2]

So this happened to me as well back about 10 to 15 years ago when i bought a few Indians from a dealer in Coins magazine.  they were the first Inian cents i ever purchased that were advertized as Gem Unc. before then it was just the whitman folders and filling the holes.  I sent them off to NGC back in the day and when i got them back i was like WT@#~%%  everyone of them wer ungradeable Altered color.  Well live and learn.  then find a dealer that will putupu with a million questions about the series you will have it made..  jut my expirence from the jungle.

[Jeffrey W. Ebner]

On 8/15/2021 at 6:13 PM, kenlee47 said:

Learn how to spell and grade coins!.....Hey Big Coin Buff....That is why I asked others opinions....Let me see your 1877 AU Indian Head Penny or 1819 Coronet Liberty Large Cent....jwe

 

 

 

Edited August 21, 2021 by Jeffrey W. Ebner

[Jeffrey W. Ebner]

So, is this a Yah....or   Nay...  COIN...????

Edited August 21, 2021 by Jeffrey W. Ebner

[Jeffrey W. Ebner]

On 8/16/2021 at 1:41 PM, JT2 said:

So this happened to me as well back about 10 to 15 years ago when i bought a few Indians from a dealer in Coins magazine.  they were the first Inian cents i ever purchased that were advertized as Gem Unc. before then it was just the whitman folders and filling the holes.  I sent them off to NGC back in the day and when i got them back i was like WT@#~%%  everyone of them wer ungradeable Altered color.  Well live and learn.  then find a dealer that will putupu with a million questions about the series you will have it made..  jut my expirence from the jungle.

I feel for ya...I had to learn the same lesson....I will lean much harder on graded coins to play it safe....

[Jeffrey W. Ebner]

On 7/2/2012 at 12:40 PM, Scott_Schechter said:

We recognize this as a challenging area for many collectors, especially given that experience is the best way to judge the originality of color on Indian Cents. This is made doubly challenging because early dates, middle dates and later dates naturally have different appearances. And some dates, like the 1883, have very distinct color, essentially unique to that date.

 

Since the grading of Indian Cents requires that NGC designate a color – red, red brown or brown – we indentify coins as Altered Color when they have undergone some treatment to appear redder than they would otherwise be. The color of the coin itself is the most effective means to identify this treatment, but luster may be impaired as well. The hues of altered coins are readily identifiably to NGC graders and usually just jump out as being off-color.

 

The best thing to do is to look as many coins in person as you can. Often a copper coin of artificial color will be described as being “too orange” or “too pink,” but of course these are relative terms that presume knowledge of the natural color of a coinage issue. Looking at high-grade red coins in NGC holders will show you good color.

 

Thanks for the Input....Hay were all here because we love coins....I will lean towards pre graded purchases in the future...On the other hand, I was able to get a Few 2021 Morgans O and D and 2021 Peace dollar....Do you think they are worth Grading????....I am sure they will come back MS69 OR MS70....I have seen value ranges from $350.oo to $1000.oo dollars

[Dark Chameleon]

My local dealer has a penny that is graded an ms66 rd but over time even though it's sealed in a grading slab the color has changed, so much it would not achieve an rd grade were it cracked out and resubmitted, what would the reason for that be, its supposed to be sealed so how come oxidation is happening?

Edited August 21, 2021 by Dark Chameleon

[Oldhoopster]

On 8/21/2021 at 11:47 AM, Dark Chameleon said:

My local dealer has a penny that is graded an ms66 rd but over time even though it's sealed in a grading slab the color has changed, so much it would not achieve an rd grade were it cracked out and resubmitted, what would the reason for that be, its supposed to be sealed so how come oxidation is happening?

1. Slabs are not hermetically sealed.  They do reduce the potential for atmospheric infiltration, but much will depend on the storage environment.  Normally, this isn't a problem, but is something to consider

2. There could have been an unseen residue or contamination on the coin when it was slabbed (maybe leftover from a quick dip or surface enhancement).  I've seen a few slabbed Morgan dollars with dip residue that is retoning.  Nothing like a darker drip mark on a coin in a slab.