Grade the Bust Dime! New Pics posted on first post!

[AnkurJ]

Not my pics.

 

Its in a PCGS OGH CAC holder.

 

 

New pics I am surprised this did not get a gold sticker. There are no issues on the coin other than a few very light scratches which may have been the reason for the downgrade. In any case, I am pleased with the coin and will proudly have it in my collection.

 

 

Ankur

 

 

[Bruceswar]

Looks damaged to me, but I will guess PCGS said something like AU 55

[FishyOne]

55 sounds like a good guess.

[James_OldeTowne]

Looks damaged to me, but I will guess PCGS said something like AU 55

I agree, as it looks like it is bent, based on the odd wear pattern. Given that it might be net-graded, I'll guess EF-40 (or in TPG parlance.... XF40).

[AnkurJ]

I believe that is due to strike. I have a 1795 half dime that is also has uneven wear due to a weak strike.

[L1ncolnF4n]

Appears to be a very choice AU-58 or so. The strike affects the eye-appeal but it only appears to have the faintest traces of some rub on high points.

[johnny9434]

ill go au 50 maybe a 55

[BillJones]

The 1807 dimes were all made with one set of dies that became absolutely wretched at the end. The die pair was pushed almost beyond endurance. This coin has a lot of hair detail and the weakness on the left side of the reverse does not bother me from a grading perspective. The thing that does bother me is the pattern of marks in back of Ms. Liberty’s head and the surfaces through stars 5 through 7. Those do not look like clash marks or die damage to me. They look like post minting damage, and if that’s so this coin will not get a third party grade.

 

The sharpness grade is in the AU-55 to 58, excluding the possible damage.

 

[AnkurJ]

I'll post the grade tonight.

Anyone else?

[Hard Times]

I'll be conservative and give it an AU-50 given its CACed

[Dudley the 1st]

I'm with the EF-40

[MarkFeld]

I'm with the EF-40

 

I'll go with AU55. And if there is something wrong enough with the coin that warrants it being net graded down ro XF, it shouldn't be graded at all. Sorry, but XF would be a silly grade for that coin.

[jayman1970]

I would say AU-58

[coinman1794]

The 1807 dimes were all made with one set of dies that became absolutely wretched at the end. The die pair was pushed almost beyond endurance. This coin has a lot of hair detail and the weakness on the left side of the reverse does not bother me from a grading perspective. The thing that does bother me is the pattern of marks in back of Ms. Liberty’s head and the surfaces through stars 5 through 7. Those do not look like clash marks or die damage to me. They look like post minting damage, and if that’s so this coin will not get a third party grade.

 

 

What he said!

 

I would say it has details in the AU range, though the luster, which does not show in the pics, will be the determining factor as to which AU grade.

[Walkerfan]

It looks to be at least an AU 55 and maybe a 58. If CAC stickered it, it has likely graded out without problem.

[AnkurJ]

Let the controversy begin!

 

Once I get it in hand, I will be taking this back to CAC to ask why it didnt get a gold.

 

[FishyOne]

Looks 20 points undergraded. The obverse has AU detail for sure. The reverse could have dropped it to XF45 - maybe.

 

30 doesn't make sense unless there is something that should have put it in a problem holder and it's net graded way down. Which is likely what happened and CAC overlooked the problems too, since it's graded so low. The value drops in half from 50 to 30 so it's likely a great buy and well worth CAC's desire to own it.

 

Just for giggles take a look at this PCGS VF35 sold by Stacks a couple years ago: Stacks 1807 Bust Dime

[wheat'swheats]

what is it that can be seen in hand but not in the photos?? there is something

wheat

[Walkerfan]

Oh my goodness!

 

That coin, although likely not a 58, should certainly have graded in the AU RANGE.

 

Maybe it was net graded due to the disturbance in the left facing field, as Bill Jones pointed out.

[L1ncolnF4n]

There must be cleaning or something in hand that has kept this at least under XF+, if not AU. I don't know why you wouldn't have this back at PCGS within a day.

[Raisethis2]

AU 55 (damaged) on slab.

[AnkurJ]

I paid VF money so I'm happy where it is.

[BillJones]

Sorry, but the entire logic of a grade on this coin is flawed.

 

PCGS obviously net graded it to Vf-30, which might be accurate, but that does not tell us what the coin really is. It is a damaged coin with a lot of "meat." Unless you are into this sort of thing, the grade on the slab is totally misleading. Most collectors who would like to own a “no problem” VF-30 will not be happy with this piece.

 

As for the CAC sticker, shame on them! This coin should have gone into a body bag. Maybe this is okay for CAC coin trading purposes, but it would not be okay for most collectors.

 

This reminds me of a PCGS graded VF-30, 1807 quarter I got stuck with when I was first starting out as a dealer. The PCGS slab was scratched in such a way that I could not see the coin well, but I did see that it had a lot of deal. The customer wanted a raw coin so I cracked it out, to find that it was a polished EF. PCGS should never have graded the coin in the first place. This is one of the problems with green label PCGS holders. You can get stuff like this, which goes to show that green label holders are not always “wonderful,” or accurately or under graded.

 

[AnkurJ]

Well let's not jump to conclusions right off the bat. I'm certain if there was something considerably wrong, John would not sticker it. I'll post pics when she arrives.

Ankur

[FishyOne]

Well let's not jump to conclusions right off the bat. I'm certain if there was something considerably wrong, John would not sticker it. I'll post pics when she arrives.

Ankur

 

I agree. This is a coin with a story to tell. Kind of like "Truth or Consequences"!

 

Please let us us know how it works out.

[coinman_23885]

Well let's not jump to conclusions right off the bat.

 

I think the board's conclusions are quite accurate; I cannot imagine the coin being a problem free coin in a VF holder with that much detail. It was clearly net graded for some reason. I would put my money on the post mint damage hypothesis.

 

[AnkurJ]

Well if there is something serious enough, I know that John will buy it back from me for close to what I paid.

[James_OldeTowne]

I believe that is due to strike. I have a 1795 half dime that is also has uneven wear due to a weak strike.

I'm sorry, but must beg to differ. If those images are accurate, then the coin is clearly damaged, having been bent, suffered about ten points of wear, then re-straightened.

 

This is why I net-graded it as EF-40 in my initial response.... and to be honest, I was trying to be "delicate" (generous). VF-30 is indeed about where it should be valued.

 

The gold sticker would tell me that it's really VF-35 to a CAC member, which i'm fine with as well. That's an appropriate net-grade for a damaged 1807 dime with that level of detail.

 

To say the coin is "unevenly struck" works for many early coins, but that just doesn't fit the odd wear pattern for this particular piece. Personally, I would pass on the coin in most cases, unless it really was available for VF-30/35 money, as then, it's a lot of detail for the (net) grade.

 

Well let's not jump to conclusions right off the bat. I'm certain if there was something considerably wrong, John would not sticker it. I'll post pics when she arrives.

Please, you must stop this nonsense of assuming that John (or anyone else) is infallible! CAC makes mistakes, just as any normal person or entity would. Now, I'm sure he will make good on it if an error occurred, but you seeming to be jumping up and down with glee over a CAC sticker that simply does not seem warranted - a gold one at that.

 

Send the coin back for additional review, and please let us know the results !

[AnkurJ]

I paid just a hair over PCGS price guide in case anyone wants to know.

 

And I am not saying CAC is perfect. I myself have seen John peel the sticker of certain coins. But what I am saying is that they will STAND BEHIND what they pass. So to me there is minimal risk.

 

It has a green sticker by the way, not a gold.

 

Again, once it arrives in hand I will post pics.

Ankur

[BillJones]

Sorry, Ankur, but this coin is for CAC Kool Aid drinkers. I know that is a brutal comment, but I need to make the point. The coin should never have gone into a PCGS holder because it is damaged. This sort of thing was one of the reasons why slabbing and certification came on the market.

 

Since the coin should not have been graded in the first place, it also should not have a CAC sticker. Once more this is the reason for CAC. They are supposed to protect you from miss-graded coins. Yes, the net grade might be right, but this is not a problem free coin that is above controversy when it is bought and sold. Many dealers who specialize in early coins would avoid handling this piece.